One of 'The Terrible Twins'?

Discussion in 'Others' started by Pat Curran, Feb 3, 2014.

  1. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    362
    6
    Just returned from a trip to the Nederlands Instituut voor Militaire Historie in The Hague. Was able to check their collection on the Soemba. Although they do not have the original logs, they do hold a copy of a detailed study of her activities (and the of the Flores).
    Copied 70 pages of material, so it will take time to go through them.

    However, some things are quite clear: She attacked two targets at Grandcamp on D-Day. These were pre-assigned to her for the operation. Later in the day she spotted and engaged German flak from woods E of "Pointe de Houe."

    No action on D+1.

    More to come.

    The original logs are kept in the National Archive (also in The Hague). I now have the record number so I'll be checking those when I get the time.
     
  2. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,634
    17
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Thanks Niels,

    So she did engage targets in the Omaha sector!

    Looking forward to your further findings.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  3. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    362
    6
    For operations on the Cotentin the Soemba was assigned Shore Fire Control Party 29 on 8 and 9 June. I know Fold3 (https://www.fold3.com/document/287169521/) has at least some references to that Party, but it could be very useful if we learned more.

    On 10 June it was S.F.C.P.34 and this continued for a few days.

    On 12 June she was ordered by "de jager 636" to open fire immediately on the crossroads of the D42-D14. Range 12000 m. ["jager 636" is probably a fighter in an artillery guiding role]
    Time 14:43-15:08
    Ammo use: 62 shots, including 8 'pantserspringgranaten' (armor piercing?)
    Ammo was down to 10%, and she was ordered to return to the U.K. to load another 600 rounds.
    Arrived for Plymouth at 12:30 the next day.
    On 27 June received orders to relieve the Hr.Ms. Flores the next day. This meant the ship was reassigned to the British sector where it remained until she was ordered to Portsmouth on 11 July.
     
  4. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 25, 2012
    584
    9
    Male
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
    Hi Pat and Niels,

    In one of the Operational Orders, the Soemba was part of a beach neutralization and close support plan. and it reads the following:

    Soemba at H minus 40 commence direct fire at targets 30 and 32. Attempt to protect Ranger Party at POINTE DU HOE. Use deliberate fire.

    Target 30 was a Utah Beach assigned target at grid location 545932, which was into Grandcamp just east of the port. By plotting it on the map, it seemed to fall between Omaha pre-planned target T97 and German WN 79.

    Target 32 was a Utah Beach assigned target at grid location 538934, This was just west of Grandcamp on the beach. It matched with Omaha pre-planned target of T104 and German WN 81.

    John
     
  5. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    362
    6
    Yep, same numbers and coordinates in the records I copied. Firing to take place between H-40 and H+2 hours.

    Descriptions
    #30: Versterking (reinforced position) Infantry position in build up area of Grandcamp. Two pillboxes. One light gun on the point of eastern 'havenhoofd' (don't know the English term for this). Three guns (probably field guns) reported in this area.
    #32: Versterking (reinforced position) Infantry position on west coast of Grandcamp. Three pillboxes. One 3,7 antitank gun. One 4,7 cm antitank gun in small turret. One shelter. Two 15 cm guns reported in this area.

    No further mention of the Soemba in other official plans, nor was a sector assigned for toragets of opportunity. Offer to support landing on "Pointe de Houe" rejected by CO Rangers.
     
  6. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,634
    17
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Thanks Niels,

    IIRC, there is footage of rounds falling in the Quineville area with an American GI kneeling beside an AT gun (which is also firing). He seems to be observing the fall of shot through binoculars.

    Google Translate says that's a jetty, so presumably the gun was positioned at the end of the walled entrance to the harbour.

    ________________​

    Niels, is there any mention of her supporting the 82nd in their attack towards Le Ham and Montebourg Station?

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  7. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    362
    6
    Nothing specific. But it is possible a few rounds here and there are not included in the records I have.

    On 9 June no action reported, other than what happened in the vicinity of the ship. Merchant ships reportedly downed four friendly fighters. One parachute was observed.
    On 10 June she engaged Target 98 (range 10300 m)
    On 11 June she engaged target 88 and 90 (range 6300 m), which were apparently reinforced positions on the coast. It also engaged a shore battery (no position given, range 9500 m), target 14A (12400 m), a battery with three guns at the NE corner of 3211 (17300 m).
     
  8. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    362
    6
    Just returned to from a trip to the Dutch National Archives. Photographed much of the logs of the Soemba and Flores. Unfortunately the logs provide only very basic information. I also looked for after action reports but those available cover different periods.
    I still have to go through the notebooks (literally schoolkids notebooks) that include some reports from the signal guys (copied the relevant pages). However, I have not found an official communications log, but because of the way things are organized in the archive I am not too surprised about that. May be next time.

    Any way, regarding the story of the Soemba supporting US paratroopers on D+1... I wonder if that actually happened in 1943 in the Mediterranean. Without original documents I did not see any use yet to check the logs for that period yet. It's unlikely that period would have been better documented.

    Either way, I do have a considerable amount of material now... there's an interest I can make it available but since almost all of it is written in dutch.....
     
  9. allan125

    allan125 Active Member
    Researcher

    Apr 20, 2013
    360
    0
    Male
    Retired - although it doesn't feel like it
    Cornwall/UK
    Thanks for the further research Niels.

    regards

    Allan
     
  10. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,634
    17
    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Thanks for your efforts Niels,

    As is nearly always the case, these quests are seldom straightforward.

    Did you find any photographs which might match the ship in BP Film 1831.07?

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  11. Jpz4

    Jpz4 Active Member
    Researcher

    Oct 24, 2012
    362
    6
    You're welcome Pat.
    I did not go through the photograph collection, so no luck there.
    Working on a to-do list for next time and will put those on it.
     
  12. hans_ni-hi

    hans_ni-hi Guest
    Guest

    Hi Pat,Niels,

    I searched for the ship in the BP reel 1831.07 and have this to offer:

    Van Kinsbergen. The ship show good similarities with still 409. The hull seems identical and the 2 guns at stern, the super structure, the davids at the aft and what maybe are searchlights behind the super structure, for me matches all well.

    The caption reads 'Van Kinsbergen in her unaltered, peacetime condition (Collection O. van Hoften)'. The pic is from the Royal Netherlands Navy Warships of World War II.


    Well someone was more quicker than me: Youtube. Alt least a confirmation.
     

Share This Page