Hi All, As some of you may know, one of the naval units which was assigned to 'Bombardment Force A' at Utah Beach was the Royal Netherlands Navy sloop HNMS 'Soemba'. This little ship, along with her sister, HNMS 'Flores' earned a remarkable reputation for gunnery accuracy during the invasion of Sicily the previous year. It was this reputation which earned the two sisters the title 'The Terrible Twins' by their admiring Royal Navy colleagues and placed HNMS Soemba in the thick of the action at Utah Beach. I have long sought a photograph of the Soemba showing her during the landings at Utah but have to date failed to find any. However, my hopes were temporally raised today when I found this footage on the British Pathe site. It has been given the BP code 1831.07 and titled "Naval Material Reel 8 1940-1949". The footage shows a number of different clips stitched together, all of which I suspect relate to Royal Netherlands Navy vessels. It is the final sequence, commencing at time mark 01min 54sec which has caught my eye. First though let's look at two known images of HNMS 'Soemba': Two of her three single 5.9in (150mm) gun turrets are hidden under the tropical canvas screen in both photographs above. They were positioned two forward and one aft. Below is a report on her performance at Utah Beach dated 1st July 1944: OK, back to the footage. Below are several stills showing a RNN vessel docked on a day when she is visited by a high ranking naval officer. The similarities to 'The Terrible Twins' is striking but, if I am not mistaken, there are differences, especially in the upper superstructure: Can anyone confirm that the vessel in the footage is not one of 'The Terrible Twins'...and if she is not, can anyone give me her correct name? Thanks, Pat
RE: [Not] One of 'The Terrible Twins'? Fist of all the sailor with the cap has 'Koninklijke Marine' embroid on his cap, Dutch for our 'Royal Navy' and the flag is probably red white and blue. The three stars indicate a vice-admiral.However based on the superstructure and especially the side of the hull, I doubt this is a ship from the Flores-klasse. Here's a list of the Dutch Royal Navy in WW2: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_Nederlandse_marineschepen_in_de_Tweede_Wereldoorlog I'm leaning towards a ship similar to the Van Kinsbergen photo from wikipedia They are certainly not identical.... but still closer than the Soemba The color of the Ship on the stills is interesting, I'd have expected camoflage.
RE: [Not] One of 'The Terrible Twins'? Thanks Niels, I have a suspicion that the three stars might refer to a high ranking officer being onboard (either the visitor in the footage or some other Flag Officer...perhaps with the rank of Vice Admiral). Do you think it might be possible to identify the officer with the microphone in front of the turret? Yes, the Van Kinsbergen does look to be a much better match. The top of the funnel is sloped backwards like the unknown vessel and the upper superstructure is the right height. If you know of any dedicated forums which might be able to help, please let me know. Regards, Pat
RE: [Not] One of 'The Terrible Twins'? I'll ask my uncle if he knows where to start looking. He's a former naval officer himself and his father was the chief medical officer on the Flores. There's an organization especially for (former) Naval Officers. I've checked the flag and it indicates a vice-admiral. The officer behind the microphone however is a Kapitein-luitenant ter zee (Commander in the English speaking world I believe), as indicated by the three stripes on his sleeves.
RE: [Not] One of 'The Terrible Twins'? Looking forward to whatever your uncle can add to this story. Thanks Niels, Pat
RE: [Not] One of 'The Terrible Twins'? Hi Everyone, here is the map from USS Quincy A Report (Green Room; USS Quincy AA Report; Page 6) mounted over GE of UTAH beach and Grandcamp Maisy. I did do only minor tweaks to fit the coast lines. The St Marcouf, coast line at UTAH and Grandcamp Maisy, all very consistent. Here is a blow up of the original map with 3 arrows. Pointing right: St Marcouf, pointing left USS Nevada and pointing top-bottom what I think is HNMS Soemba (?). Close to UTAH and OMAHA. Reading to be confirmed. Next step is to overlay 8038 This needs to time because the St Marcouf and only the ship can be used to overlay. Will update this week.
RE: [Not] One of 'The Terrible Twins'? Hi Hans, This map confirms your position for HNMS Soemba: The extract below from a Mine Data Plot of the area shows the wreck locations of the destroyer USS Meredith (DD-726) and the mine sweeper USS Tide (AM-125) both initially damaged by mines on the 7th June in the same area: Regards, Pat
Hi All, I just came across the entry for HNMS Soemba in the 1943/44 edition of 'Jane's Fighting Ships': The photo shows her without the tropical screen, so her profile is clearer for our comparison purposes if we find a candidate off the Normandy Beachhead. Regards, Pat
Nice work Pat - do you own Jane's Fighting Ships for 1943/1944, or was this by any chance in your local reference library? regards Allan
Hi Allan, I think it was on the Forces War Records site I found it. Their individual service records are quite limited as to what information is in their database, but they do have a huge number of publications scanned as PDFs which you can, as a member, view (in part) for free and/or download to buy. I joined for something like £15 on a special offer last summer. The first photo in the 'Uffz. Rudolf Strosetzki's Crash Site' thread in the Green Room comes from one of their PDFs. Regards, Pat
HNMS Soemba abeam ~ Pointe du Hoc Hi Everyone, I can offer one more suggestion for HNMS Soemba. Based on the map from USS Quincy I believe we have to look abeam of Pointe du Hoc to locate the vessel. Below shows the map with all known vessels as an overlay in GE. Looking abeam ~ Pointe du Hoc should be USS Herndon, HNMS Soemba and USS Enterprise covering the area between UTAH and OMAHA. Frame P0045 from US7 1730 covers this area. Source: NCAP Here is a zoom into the frame and one can see USS Herndon in the forefront and 2 more vessels in the back. In the AA report from USS Herndon it says the ship was relieved 1st time in early afternoon. So we can be sure to a good deal it is USS Herndon we are looking to and not one of her sister ships. Source: NCAP With some 'good will' I can say the next ship in the background has a different silhouette, is small and in the right position to be HNMS Soemba according to the info derived from the map from USS Quincy. The vessel to the left in the logic of the map is USS Enterprise.
Fantastic find Hans... This could well be HNMS Soemba!!! She seems to be putting out copious amounts of smoke... Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk ...very like she is in the top photo on this page on the marineschepen.nl site, (which I presume is the official Royal Netherlands Navy site). Regards, Pat
Just thinking... If frame P_0045 and the marineschepen.nl photo shows her sailing westwards on D-Day, then the forward turret, as seen turned to port, must be engaging targets on the Cotentin. I wonder if she is being called off station to get closer to Utah Beach? - never found any account of her engaging targets in the Omaha sector, even though her assigned station would have allowed fire to be brought to bear on both Omaha and Utah. Sure would like to get a look at her log :angel: Regards, Pat
Stuff has been getting in the way of me visiting the archive. Rather than waiting for the right moment, I'll pick a date to go copy it in the next month or so. The issue is that you have to request material a week in advance, and I generally only know a few days in advance if I'll be in the area....
The log is very high on my list of records I want to check. Has been for several years, so it more than time to do something about it.
Hi Everyone, in the link from the marineshepen.nl is a personal account from D-Day saying HNMS Soemba was at some point also under fire from the shore and had to lift anchor, was moving back and forth and changing position. I assume they kept the boiler running throughout the day for such a situation. Source (D-Day en de Koninklijke Marine: http://marineschepen.nl/dossiers/D-Day-en-de-Koninklijke-Marine.html) Ook Hr.Ms. Soemba kwam onder vuur te liggen. Korporaal seiner Zeef: "Op een gegeven moment bemerkten we dat de tegenpartij het er niet mee eens was. Ze begonnen terug te schieten. De commandant gaf order tot anker op, want aan de waterfonteinen rondom ons kon je merken dat de Duitsers aan het harken waren." "En dat zonder geluk niemand wel vaart, bleek een minuut of wat later! Het anker was ingedraaid; we wilden wegstomen, maar op een of andere manier zaten we vast. Dan maar een klapje achteruit. We komen los en lopen langzaam achteruit. In het door het achteruitslaan omgewoelde water springen drie, vier waterfonteinen op die onze bak bevuilen. We zijn toen onmogelijk gesloft."
Hi Hans, Thanks for the translation. It looks like her highly accurate gunnery did not go unnoticed by the German shore batteries! Regards, Pat
If everything works out I'll be visiting the archive Wednesday next week. Fingers crossed. If possible, I'm also prepared to look into any requests from members here. Priority will of course be given to Hr.Ms. Soemba, and to her sister the Flores (family ties) but I'll except other requests as well.