Hi Guys, Can I ask you to give some thought to the possibility of creating a database for the landing locations of American Wacos and Horsas on the Cotentin? Does anyone have any ideas as to how we might go about the task? Thanks, Pat
Pat I am not sure that we have the information to create such database. I think we must know at least: - The glider serial number - its landing coordinates (long, lat) of course it will be better with - its serial - its chalk number - its A/B number Do we have at least the two first elements in a sufficient number to create a database? Or perhaps your idea about the database is not with the same elements?
Hi Patrick, Sorry, yes I should have explained my idea better. What if we start by putting a number tag on every glider we see in the aerial photographs and use that field in the database as the primary identifier for each record, then as more information/photographs/footage is found for a glider, it can be used to populate the other fields you refer to and perhaps photo place holders for that record (glider). Therefore, to a large extent initially, the only data available would be the unique identifier we would give the glider as we see it on an aerial image. Perhaps we could link the database to Google Maps and have a map window showing the location of each record (glider). For example, we would then be able to refer to glider #333 as the Horsa which crashed into the wall at the back of the Hospice in Sainte Mere Eglise and as more photographs or information is found which might be referring to this glider, we can say something like: "...I wonder does that new photograph show glider #333?" I just get a feeling at the moment that we have a lot of aerial coverage showing a huge number of gliders on the Cotentin which are 'floating' between images, footage and written descriptions with no 'hook' to tie them up. The fact that a large proportion are 'sub-divided' by the small fields in that area (unlike the British LZs) makes the task all the more inviting. Regards, Pat
Pat Ok I understand better now. Perhaps the begining could be the location of gliders seen in aerials on a file in .kmz format which works with google earth. (but it will be a long job no?) After that, each person who is interested could download the .kmz file with the gliders and their numbers (i.e #333) on it.. same file, same reference for everybody. just my thoughts.
Patrick, Exactly my line of thought Those who are interested could volunteer to take on a square from a map grid and do the survey in a coordinated way which would avoid duplication (always a problem in database management) Yes A very long job! but worth the effort I think. It might also be useful to add a field in the database for individual fields on the ground (excuse the pun!) so we could say that glider #222 is one of 5 in field #100. Slightly off topic here, but does anyone know if a database exists for any of the military cemeteries in Normandy? If it's not done already, could we possibly link in with a school's project? - just thinking out loud - it might be beyond our brief here. Regards, Pat
Hi, The idea is good even if it maybe a long work; but the results can be as high as the researches; I'm in to help in this idea. Sincerely, Bruno
Thanks Bruno, I note when you type in a town name into Google Maps, a red boundary appears around what looks to be a parish division: Can anyone confirm the correct division term if it's not a parish? I presume the red boundary either includes or excludes entire fields. In other words if a field is at the boundary, it is either all inside or all outside - is this correct? I ask because this might solve the problem of having a grid system (which I referred to in my last post above) intersecting fields and a glider location being either omitted or being entered twice in the database if it happened to be on the grid boundary. I need to do some research on how to set up a SQL database to allow online data entry unless someone here already knows how to do it. Regards, Pat
Pat, The boundary is that of the commune, so yes, like a parish. Field divisions may have changed since 1944, ie one big field used to be two (or more) smaller ones, but there normally should be a logical, visible feature along the division. Cheers, Sean
I've been doing a little fiddling with Google map online for work and it looks like even with a simple text file of data, we could have an interactive Google maps site for it. I do Lotus Notes database design, which is not at all like SQL databases, so I wouldn't be a lot of help in an SQL setting. As much as I love my Lotus Notes, I'd likely be the only one to ever know anything about it, so some sort of MySQL database is probably the best bet. I'm guessing your hosting plan includes MySQL? Sample map file attached - you should be able to download and open in a browser. I would expect connecting it to data points in a MySQL database wouldn't be that tough and it would be viewable over the web by anyone. I've been thinking of this for some of the Operation Dragoon and Colmar Pocket stuff, since being able to zoom in and out, and manipulate the maps, is such a great aid to understanding.
Hi Dave, I had a look at your attached file and yes it does seem to be the way to go if we can link the map 'pins' to a SQL database which could be updated online as the survey progresses. I had a look again at the Google Maps canton (parish) boundary and this time overlaid it with the 'Satellite' view turned on. Having dampened down the area outside the Sainte Mere Eglise canton in PS, the canton boundaries look like they could be used to create manageable areas. Perhaps this particular one might benefit from further sub-division using roads and/or the railway track. Below is a worked up screenshot of the Sainte Mere Eglise canton: I did find one anomaly where the canton boundary dissects a field - look to the NE of Sainte Mere Eglise town and the grey field 'stepped out' of the canton. Not a huge problem but we would want to be careful of double entries. Apparently Google Maps is easy to 'extend' if you know how so I purchased a book titled 'Google Map Hacks' by Rich Gibson & Schuyler when I was in the UK last week. It shows you how to customise and add additional features. Keep the thoughts coming... Regards, Pat
Hi Pat, The "Parish" idea seems like an very large area for creating and charting a database for gliders. Have you considered using the roads and tracks that existed then, that currently exist as roads today? You would have more areas, but less gliders per area. Just an idea to consider. Respectfully, John Szweda
Hi John, Yes, I reckon the canton of Sainte Mere Eglise could be sub-divided into about 8-10 areas about the size of the section to the west of the Carentan - Cherbourg railway track - or even smaller depending on the road network. I'll do up a sub-divided version of the above screenshot tonight to show what I mean. Regards, Pat Edit inserted @ 11:04AM The reference in the database to a field on the ground would then be something like [canton] > [sub-div] > [field #] So, for example if you wanted to reference a field which lies in the Sainte Mere Eglise canton (parish) to the west of the railway track, it might read something like [sainte mere eglise] > [A] > [001] How practical all this is I am not sure yet, but the theory seems to me to be 'doable' :dodgy:
Hi Guys, Below is my effort at sub-dividing the canton of Sainte Mere Eglise: Each of the 18 sub-divisions A-R inclusive are created by using the road and laneway network and hence are not all the same size. It looks like the average sub-division contains somewhere in the region of 15-20 fields. Note I used the old N13 where applicable. I am now going to create 18 detailed Google Map screenshots of sufficient scale to clearly show the boundaries of each field within the sub-divisions. Each field therein will have its own number. If anyone spots problems, errors or a better way of doing this, please let me have your thoughts. Regards, Pat
Hi All, Here is my attempt at numbering the fields in sub-division H of the Sainte Mere Eglise canton: Click here for Index Map. Only the H sub-division is done to date. What you think of the zoom level? I could make a much bigger sub-division image but then the user would have to scroll the browser window more... anyone any thoughts? A thought just struck me - creating a numbering system for the fields might be of benefit to our overall research efforts; not just for the glider survey.:idea: Still working on the database element of this project. Regards, Pat
Hi All, The time required to mark up parish subdivisions is proving impractical so I am going to see what the Google Map API 3.0 can do to move this project on. If anyone has experience implementing the Google Maps API (2.0 or 3.0) into a web page and is willing to help out, please send me a PM. Thanks, Pat