As you can read in my member introduction, I am helping Robert L. Brown, son of W.H. 'Bill' Brown, find his father's Waco glider landing location. Bob and I already covered quite a bit of ground towards finding the exact spot, when I was made aware of the WBR forum here, but we are still looking for more detailed information, mainly to try and get confirmation of the exact spot as indicated on an old, hand drawn after-battle map. I already have a subscription to the Scottish aerial archives (NARA) and Fold3, but haven't found aerial photographs of the area around Hiesville. In the Laudecey thread is saw that such footage EXISTS, so my search continues I have also written the mayor of Hiesville asking for more information, or direction towards more archives. No reply so far. Also, Bob was in touch in the past with the son of the glider pilot ('Bill' brown was the co-pilot on the Chicago operation), who actually visited Normandy, but he lost contact and also lost his email conversations. What I am currently looking for (and some of that information may already be available among forum members here) is: - Aerial photos of the area directly north-east of Hiesville, to see if we can recognize the gliders after the landing, compared to the after-battle map we have. - the location of the first aid post where Bill and Tommy Biggs were taken to and where they spent the night. It was in the courtyard of a farm, about a mile from the crash.... I suspect near the Hiesville village center - any archive of local eyewitnesses. There was a farmer with his horse who tried to help pull the glider out of the brush. There were 101st medics who found the pilots the morning after the crash, and who also helped retrieve the jeep from the wreck. And 101 paratroopers who took possession of the jeep after that. In the meantime I'll try and figure out WHAT and can post here in terms of pictures and attachments, and how to do that. Thanks for reading ! Francois
Hi Francois, I did check out your webpage on the research you have so far and I wanted to make sure you dont miss the aerial photo in the "NCAP High Resolution Frames" on the forum. Spcificly US7/1857 frame 4052. It covers the area in which you believe glider #29 landed. I already compared your overlay of landing locations of gliders with this aerial, but I dont see any immediate specific glider in that location ... But with the aid of many of the researchers here, and putting the pieces together, there is a good chance of finding it ! I hope you can share the overlay with those here. I look forward to seeing the progress made here. Respectfully, John Szweda
Hi Francois, Can you tell us where you are in your research to date on the grid below? The aid station your refer to is almost certainly the 101st Divisional Hospital at Chateau Colombieres - E6/E7 above. Regards, Pat
@John, I suspect you mean 4052? Found that and...... BUMMER ! Not a trace of activity in those fields. Even 6 days later I suspect there should have been some signs of gliders left..... :-( I see there is also a series of June 6th, albeit with clouds and higher up, but the part I am interested in is not listed. Thanks for pointing me to that list, I hadn't seen it yet! @Pat, I found the Colombieres hospital in previous research, but from the text from Bob it sounds like there was a place at Hiesville, in a farm's courtyard, where hospiks had set up a first aid station. It is also where Bill Brown apparently spent the night, before being taken back to the beach by German POW's. OH WAIT: that IS very close to the place I am looking at (and found by now) ! I am trying to find Hiesville on the grid map and will post the coordinates as soon as I recognize the field I am looking for It IS shown in the picture John pointed me to (US7GR_1857_4052), but it would be good to have an earlier shot of the same area to be sure the gliders weren't removed between 6 and 12 (which I can hardly imagine). Found it: F7, F8 is the field indicated on 'our' map...... Thanks for your kind help, Francois
Hi Francois, I suspect that the glider could have been pushed to the hedgerows if it didnt land at one already to clear the large field for later glider missions. There has been evidence of this happening already in the McCarthy or General Pratt threads, so it mat not be surprising to not find it immediately on the June 12th 4052 photo. Someone might be able to check a low resolution aerial from the June 6th photos and find a match, but I think I remember some clouds in some of those photos. Respectfully, John
John, I am working on several photos, and will upload the information I have received from Bob, so as to clarify why I am looking at that particular field. There should have been a number of gliders there actually....... and the one we are looking for would be into a hedgerow or a line of trees already, with tail removed ! The quest continues
Hi Francois, From your description, I would consider moving a little more to the east and having a look at Fields X and Y: Both have a mixed bag of Horsa and Waco gliders. Am I reading you correctly that the Waco in question lost its tail on landing? Looking forward to your photos Regards, Pat
All -- many, many thanks for your input and insight into this -- my quest to locate my father's glider #29 crash site. Bob Brown (son of Flight Officer William H. Brown) -- Chicago mission. June 6th.
Thanks Pat ! The other aid station sounds promising, we didn't know about that yet ! Lets see if we can better fit Bill's story into that location These are not on the photo of Hiesville I downloaded (4052). Do you have a photo number for me? EDIT: Never mind, dumb me. I noticed the number in the image name now <slaps forehead> Many thanks, Francois
Hi Francois, The Holdy Aid Station was run by Capt. George Lage, surgeon of 2/502nd PIR and a team of medics under him. The house marked above is, as I understand it, the accepted location for the aid station in the hamlet of Holdy. However, there are three ground photographs in Mark Bando's '101st Airborne - The Screaming Eagles at Normandy' with captions indicating they were taken at this location. In my view, these three photographs do not match that house. I believe there is a better candidate a little closer to the fields marked X and Y above at the south western edge of the hamlet. This would shorten the distance from the possible landing field still further. Just an observation and I could be wrong. Regards, Pat
It wasn't exactly a blinding flash, but a likely answer came to me today. Kinda fits into the 'if all else fails, read the instructions' category. The 74th TCS map legend shows which chalk numbers belonged to which missions. #25-32 are for Keokuk. This fits what we know from Pat Elie's work - there were four elements, 71st, 72nd, 73rd, and 74th TCS assigned to Keokuk. The map was prepared by the 74th, so that makes some sense. Looks like Chicago Chalks #37-52 are 74th. Unfortunately, if correct, this excludes Bob's father's Waco. Also, if you look at Pat Elie's stuff, F/O Brown was assigned to the 73rd TCS (this could have been temporary duty). Bob and Francois deserve a better fate, so let me add another clue: Capt. Willis P. McKee was a medical officer in the 326th and was attached to the 506th for the jump. According to Koskimaki, he jumped in COL Sink's plane. Sink's #3 stick does not appear on the 506PIR parachute map (but #2 does appear - about midway between Hiesville and Holdy). The only clue I've seen to Sink's landing spot is that he moved parallel to an asphalt paved road. Maybe D70 or D913? Anyway, here's a link to Capt. McKee's official report: http://history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/wwii/326thAirborneMedCo101stABDiv/CPTMcKee326thABMedCoDDay.html (Note that the transcriptionist types 'D-1' when 'D+1' is clearly meant - obviously too young to remember when a '+' sign was typed by using a minus, then going back and typing a forward slash through it). McKee also appears in several entries in Koskimaki - along with a couple of other medics under his command. As can be seen, the most significant clue might be McKee's mention that he initially set up in a small farmhouse. My take is that he then moved to 506 HQ at Culoville. I've read too much in too short a time to absorb it all, but don't we have an account from Brown about being initially treated in a small house, then later moved to a larger complex?
Funny that. I have been studying the exact same thing after the empty aerial photo showed up. I had forgotten about the legend after I made the detail overlay of the area with the T29 and Bob's indication that this was his father's glider. I too then noticed the series of chalk numbers do not 'fit' and we may be looking at Keokuk gliders indeed ...... bummer ! That is correct. I was looking for a (walled) farm where they were treated and spent the second night. It could have been Holdy's..... Thanks for all the help !
Hello there, To confirm, Lage's aid station, and the location of his photographs, was at the houses further to the west of the "gun field", as suggested by Pat above. Cheers, Sean
Hi Don't unterstand well what you mean by Sink's #3 stick ?? Col Sink was in stick #1 of serial 11, in the lead plane flown by Col Young, CO of the 439th. Sink's landing location was within 200 yards of his designated CP at Culovillle. One of the men of the stick landed in a tree in the back yard of the farm http://www.usaaftroopcarrier.com/YoungandSink.htm http://www.usaaftroopcarrier.com/Normandy--fromITV/ColSink-DZ.htm [hr] No it was not a temporary duty. F/O William H. Brown was from the 73rd TCS. he is listed in the squadron diary for the award of the air medal (july44), the purple heart (june44), first bronze oak leaf cluster (November44) etc..
Marshall's official history (<i>REGIMENTAL UNIT STUDY NUMBER 3, 506 PARACHUTE INFANTRY REGIMENT IN NORMANDY DROP</i>) was compiled sometime before the fall of 1945 when the 101st was still in Europe. He wrote the following: <i>Then [Sink] checked his compass, and decided to move east. After about 300 yards he came to a side road; <b>all of this time he had been walking parallel to the main road into STE MARIE DU MONT</b>, without realizing that he was within 40 yards of the highway....he showed them where they were about 250 yards from the spot <b>where SINK was supposed to set up his CP on the jump field</b>....After two hours the trickle of men ceased and SINK decided to move all hands, including LT COL WILLIAM L. TURNER of First Battalion, and the few men with him, over to COULAVILLE. The group then moved to the CP location.</i> Not sure how your link manages to cite Marshall, yet ignore the above quotes. Further, Marshall's work includes the 506th drop map which shows HQ Plane #1 dropping its troopers just north of D70 slightly east of Hiesville. <i>RwD</i> reproduces that map and paraphrases from Marshall. Obviously COL Young was referring to Sink's landing field CP, not Culoville. I was attracted to Capt. McKee's account because his activities sounded similar to Brown's description of how he was picked up after being injured in landing his Waco. It made sense that with McKee's job being to find jump injured pararatroopers that he would also pick up glidermen in the same area. If McKee was indeed on the same plane as Sink, then he likely landed somewhere a bit east of Sink. This might be a clue to help narrow down the area where Brown landed - if my guess that McKee's men picked up Brown is correct.