I am trying to find a photograph and/or the location of the Horsa glider my father flew as part of operation Hackensack on June 7, 1944 He was the Glider Officer of the 93 TCC and his glider was Chalk#1. His interrogation report can be found at http://www.6juin1944.com/veterans/hobbs.php. He described the field in which he landed as being flooded by 2 to 3 feet of water. It was about 700 ft long and surrounded by trees 30 to 40 feet tall and a bank or hedge of over 4 foot. On landing the nose of the glider came off and he was hurled out of the glider but was not injured. He described his location as about 2 miles NE of Boutteville. However Patrick Elie thinks it may have been north of that probably between St Martin and Audouville la Hubert. At least one other Horsa of the 93 TCS landed in the same field. Thanks for any help you can give me.
Hi Chuck, There is an account of a water landing by a Horsa in 'Glide to Glory' which, IIRC, matches your description very well. The book is an excellent source of 325th GIR troopers' accounts, but the only drawback is there is no index and it takes quite a while to re-locate a particular story if you failed to make a note of the relevant pages. Again, IIRC, the account states that two men, strapped to the same piece of wreckage, went head first into the water and only narrowly escaped drowning when they were pulled out by their buddies. I can't recall if they were the pilots or two passengers. On the reconnaissance cover so far studied here, I cannot recall seeing a Horsa in water, so I wonder if perhaps the glider in question landed in an open drain. Just an observation. I'll have a look for the account tonight. Regards, Pat
These flooded fields did not really show on the reconnaissance photos as the grass protruded out of the water fooling photo intelligence. From talking to Chuck earlier in the month when I met him in Memphis, his father's Horsa would be quite some way from the LZ W. Are there recon photos out there for these areas to the east of St Mere Eglise?
Hi Pat. It does seem to match the description in the interrogation reports of my father and the other glider pilots and copilot of the 93rd TCS. I also recently spent time looking through COL Young's files that are now at Silent Wings Museum and found at letter from Col Young in which he related a conversation with my dad who told him that his copilot F/O Dan Hoffpnauir saved his life by pulling him from the water. None of the troops in the glider were injured. Another Horsa flown by F/O Charles Brema landed in the same field and he also reported 2 to 3 feet of water. Another glider also landed in a field with 2 feet of water but it doesn't appear it was the same field as the one my father landed in. I do not know what an open drain would look like. The book Glide to Glory is one I do not have and it appears to be hard to find and it is very expensive. Thanks for the great information. Chuck
Niel and Chuck, First, have you both downloaded the high altitude/wide angle frame US7GR_1857_8010 from the Resource Files section? It gives a very good view of the wet areas in the American airborne sector. The scale is too small to find individual gliders, unless you know where the one of interest is located. I think John gave us a pretty big figure for the number of gliders still to be located, so there may well be water landings with, as yet unknown aerial recon cover. I located the account in 'Glide to Glory' on page 197, which is that of Lewis A. Strandburg of Company I, 325th GIR. Like a lot of the accounts by 325th troopers, he tries to bring a bit of balance to the La Fiere causeway attack on the 9th June, but I wont go into that here, other that to quote him stating 'Co. I didn't get much "press"'. Here is the account of his landing in Normandy on the 7th June: So, it looks like PFC Strandburg's Horsa is indeed down in a flooded area and not far from La Fiere bridge if the covering note he sent to the author is correct. What do you guys think? Regards, Pat
Mission Hackensack took off taking 2nd battalion 325th GIR. I Company would have been 3rd battalion. As Chuck mentioned, Capt. Hobbs was in position #1. Using the information Chuck has given regarding where his father landed (2 miles NE of Boutteville), the distance from Les Forges (centre of LZ W) to an area approx 2 miles NE of Boutteville is 7000 yards. Cross referencing that to the 82nd Airborne glider table for Hackensack, only one Horsa is claimed to have landed 7000 yards away from LZ W. It has the chalk number B-12. However, it states that the glider is damaged whilst from what Chuck says, the Horsa was more or less destroyed.
Pat: I have downloaded the photo you listed above. Now I need to find some landmark si I can figure out where I am when looking at it. The passage from Glider to Glory is very interesting. However all the information I have says the 439th in Hackensack was carrying 2/325 and 2Bn/401. Thus company I doesn't really fit. However I don't know which TCS delivered the 3BN/325. I also know that at least 3 of the 93 TCS gliders landed in water. I am now wondering if in some accounts the 2/401 was called the 3/325 as they were assigned to the 325 for Normandy. If so he could have been in my father's glider. My head is spinning. The 0700 take off time does match Hackensack. I don't think they landed close to La Fiere bridge as it is west of SME. When I Google Purple Heart Bridge Normandy, Purple Heart Lane comes up as a nickname for N13 going from SME to Carentan. There were several bridges on it but I think they are several miles South of Les Forges and I am almost certain my father landed North of Les Forges. However the 325 did fight for Carentan a few days latter. Anyway I really do thank you for the passage from Glider to Glory you sent Wish I could but a copy ant a reason able price.
Neil. Note that several of the gliders in the 82nd glider table have the distance in miles instead of yards. There is even one listed at 4 miles. That one is also listed as damaged. His glider did have a damaged or missing nose but none of the glider troops were injured so it may have been marked damaged instead of destroyed. Is there any particular landmark on the photo 8010 that I can use to orient myself.
After figuring out where Audouville-la-Hubert is on US7GR_1857_8010, I believe the area that needs to be researched is in the top right of the frame. There is a big white mass around Audouville-la-Hubert and to the east of there begins the low lying wetlands which were flooded. Are there recon photos specifically of that area? I downloaded us30_4078_sme_utah_06-06-1944 and there are frames which cover the area. Are these actual photo recon photos?
Hi Chuck, If you are referring to aerial US7GR_1857_8010, then yes the view is looking north. The photo seems to have been taken over Carentan which is not pictured. Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I don't think there was any particular reasoning on how the legend or header was placed on the aerial photos. We usually look for landmarks for some sense of direction. John
Hi Guys, Late home tonight, but a quick markup of the frame shows three locations for reference. The narrow light toned strip to the east of Sainte Mere Eglise is the La Londe A-6 ALG and the larger, mottled area between it and the sea is bomb craters from a raid on the battery between Les Mezieres and Saint Martin de Varreville: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk Loads of other NCAP cover in your AoI Neil, but I haven't checked the sortie dates. If you have an account with them, you can zoom the online frames a little, but enough to show a Horsa if its reasonably intact. I'll do some more digging in the morning Regards, Pat
Chuck, yes, you have it in one. 3/325 GIR, 82nd Airborne was originally 2/401st GIR, 101st Airborne. The change happened in March 1944 if I am not mistaken. Some troopers were not happy with the move and in their accounts very often quote their original company letter from the 401st GIR. Lewis A. Strandburg alludes to this change in his account: Philippe Esvelin has this on Mission Hackensack on page 72 of 'Forgotten Wings': La Fiere Bridge is one and the same as "Purple Heart" Bridge. I had a look in my 'Hackensack' folder and found the photograph below from Fold3 showing C-47s and Wacos from the 91st TCS, 439th TCG ready to roll: Note the Waco marked 'W40' at the front. I believe there is a high probability that this Waco was caught on footage taken over Utah Beach during Hackensack. Note the comparison below, with the picture at right being a zoomed extract from the one above and the one on the left being a screen grab from the footage: If this comparison is correct, and there is nearly always an 'IF' in this game, then there is a film photographer on one of the Hackensack tow planes. Pushing the boat a bit further out, this guy may have been the man behind the camera who took the well know aerial photo over Les Forges and two other lesser known stills showing the same port side wing of a C-47. He may also have captured footage and/or stills two miles NE of Boutteville! Regards, Pat
There are a number of 439th TCG photographs taken at Upottery Airfield during Mission Hackensack. The Horsa ones interest me a lot.
Hi All, A small segment of the possible search area is covered by stills 80-88 in the BP Film titled 'Invasion: Aerial Shots - Paratroops 1944' (Film ID #1965.05). Below is the first and last still from the sequence: The GE finder chart is shown below: Some readers may recall when we looked at this sequence before, it was not possible to determine what the object in the field at the bottom right corner of still #85 might be... ...I don't think its part of a submerged Horsa, but I wonder now if it might be the tail section on dry land from another Horsa out of shot? Might be a good place to search for NCAP cover Neil. If they have no digitised cover on or after 7th June, it may still be possible that they hold frames which have not yet been scanned. To find out, we would need to do a paid search or visit the search room in Edinburgh and do a free manual search ourselves. Regards, Pat
Thanks to all for the great information. I will be digesting it over the next few days. It certainly matches the probable area. How much would the paid search referenced by Pat cost. Thanks. Chuck
Hi Chuck, They charge £15 (plus VAT) per 15 minutes of search time. See their Paid Search page here for further details. In the past, I have always asked them to cease searching after one hour, as it can get very expensive if you leave it open ended. I would hold off for another while though to see if we can further refine the area to be searched. I am trying to track down some more footage which crossed in over the Utah Beach area during a RAF Mitchell raid to, IIRC, the Cerisy Forest and the then lair of Panzergruppe West at Chateau La Caine. There is also American footage from a Marauder raid passing over the same general area. We have done quite a bit on this footage in the 'B-26 Marauder Footage' thread. Have a look at some of the locations found therein behind Utah and between Boutteville and the coast to get a good idea of flooding thereabouts. Regards, Pat
Another possible clue of the location is this part of my father's interrogation report. He had joined up with tha airborne and was proceeding to the Battalion CP. He states they proceeded across fields and hit the main road south of the field and they went a long it to the Bn CP. While doing this walk he reported seeing a crashed C47 with only thre tail left and the last three numbers being 065 and a flight jacket with the name Bacon on it. He also saw another crashed C47 in the distance but was unable to examin it. By the time he reached the Bn CP he had joined up with several other GP. At the Bn GP they told him to go to the Regimental CP which was about 1/2 mile due west of crossroads 33 at Les Forges. Incidentally I am also interested in photos of both these CP. Due to the above facts Patrick Elie has told me that the C47 probably was 42-93065 and Bacon was the radio operator of that C47. From the MARC and IDPF's the estimated location of the crash is 49 degree 24' 40" N , 1 degree 15' 30" W at a location named La Carouge. However the exact location of that crash is unknown. From this Patrick concludes that my father's landing was probably further N than the reported 2.5 miles NE of Bouttville and probably somewhere between St. Martin and Audouville la Hubert. He notes 4 of the crew of the C47 were buried at the temporary Cementery in St Martin.
Hi Chuck, As a rule we don't disclose the locations of C-47 crash sites found in photographs on the open Forum so as to help prevent unauthorised metal detecting. See the closed 'Green Room' area for some examples of work done in this regard. As no such obvious sites are apparent in this Associated Press photograph which just happens to show the rough area of the co-ordinates for the crash site of 42-93065, I see no harm in posting it here: Its from the AP site but no clue as to a date or sortie. Below is the finder chart from Google Earth showing three field ties: A rough angle of view for the photo is shown below on an extract from NCAP_ACIU_US7GR_1857_8010: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk Does anyone know the sortie number for the AP photo? Thanks, Pat