ALG A6 - Beuzeville au Plain (La Londe)

Discussion in 'ALGs & Airstrips' started by Pat Curran, May 14, 2013.

  1. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Hi List,

    This thread is being opened to bring together old and new information, photographs and footage now known to have been taken at the Advanced Landing Ground (ALG) A6 constructed between Sainte-Mère-Église and Beuzeville au Plain.

    Wikipedia has this article on the ALG A6.

    Regular readers will recall that we had amassed quite a bit of inter-locked footage and photographs taken at this ALG, due primarily to this piece of 'anchor' footage on Critical Past showing the 'A6' marking on the ground. Here are the pertinent stills from the last scene:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    OK, the scene is set. Next, we need to name some tree clusters seen on the northern side of the ALG behind the C-47 as 'M' takes off in a westerly direction.

    Any hope of an identification for 'M' Patrick? :D

    More soon.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  2. patelie

    patelie Active Member
    Researcher

    Yes Pat, no problem...

    It's the tail letter :) and there is one tail letter 'M' in each squadron :angel:

    If you give me the serial number of the plane it will be more easy.... perhaps!
     
  3. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,634
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Patrick,

    The second digit of the number is perhaps '3' but beyond that I cannot tell :D
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Do you have any aircraft which would fit?

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  4. marketc47

    marketc47 Active Member
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    Feb 15, 2013
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    I think it is difficult (almost impossible) to add more to this plane as we can see.
    Without the squadron code, it already needs a search for plane numbers (unless Patrick has them all in an Excel file from his previous research).
    What I know is that not all files give plane numbers. So for some squadrons the plane numbers are known, for other not. And that is only ina timeframe as planes did move around.
    For example, a 75th TCS C-47 moved in November 1944 to the 78th TCS.
    Usually, the squadron codes were painted out and a new one was applied. That is visible in photos where a darker patch is seen at the squadron code area.

    Also seen photo of 434th planes on airstrip in Normandy whit another plane lined up behind without squadron code. could that be a new arrival or a plane from Air Transport Group?

    This sure would a difficult nut to crask.

    Hans
     
  5. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Hans,

    There is no point in giving the easy ones to Patrick; he just broods like Sherlock Holmes unless he is challenged :D

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  6. patelie

    patelie Active Member
    Researcher

    Well
    If the second digit is a '3' here are the range of possibilities of serial numbers for a C-47
    - 41-38564 / 38763
    - 42-32786 / 32935
    - 43-30628 / 30761

    if you can determine which is the first digit, it can reduce the range :dodgy:
     
  7. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    This might be a good test to see if the High resolution jpeg 1382x960 (300 dpi printing at 3" x 4") is worth the $25 fee Critical Past charge :idea:

    I'll sign up with them tonight.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  8. patelie

    patelie Active Member
    Researcher

    No, NO pat

    in this case use only the $5 charge for a personnal use

    But getting the serial number doesn't mean that we will know the squadron after..
     
  9. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
    2,634
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi All,

    Well, I might as well have gone down to the local bridge and thrown my €4 into the river :-/
    [​IMG]

    Now to give Don his annual laugh; the tree naming convention at La Londe A6:
    [​IMG]

    Same tree line but a different clip this time - two spitfires are shown in addition to the same(?) C-47. This clip is located here on the Critical Past site. Below is a frame showing the first of the two Spitfires - ZD-?:
    [​IMG]
    ...and the second, on a clearer frame showing marking ZD-K:
    [​IMG]
    These two aircraft belong to No. 222 Squadron RAF. I wonder is ZD-K seen here the same aircraft flown with such success by Otto Smik, the famous Czechoslovakian ace, in 1943?

    Can anyone add to our knowledge base in relation to No. 222 Squadron RAF during the Normandy campaign and more especially who might have been flying ZD-K when this footage was shot?

    Thanks,

    Pat

    PS Thanks Patrick for saving me $15 ;)
     
  10. marketc47

    marketc47 Active Member
    Researcher

    Feb 15, 2013
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    Pat,

    Have no knowledge about the RAF.
    But wanted to say I'm sorry for the quality of the Critical Past still. I think they just 'freeze' the film, something that can be done on every computer. And that with the actual film roll in hands, it would be possible to make a clear still.
    DeTrez uses a lot of film-stills in his books. But those seem to be better in quality.
    Nevertheless, it was worth to try.
    And this keeps Patrick busy :)

    Hans
     
  11. patelie

    patelie Active Member
    Researcher

    Pat
    This is what they call High Resolution??????
    A shame. ask them to refund the $5
     
  12. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi Hans & Patrick,

    Thanks guys; I think perhaps the problem is the motion of the aircraft. If it was standing still we might have had a better chance of reading the digits.

    Just one of these things you have to accept in this game. At least it wasn't a NCAP photograph :D

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  13. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
    Staff Member

    Oct 20, 2012
    2,634
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi All,

    I have discovered new La Londe A6 footage on the British Pathe site here. The footage shows another RAF visitor; this time an Avro Anson if my aircraft type identification is correct ;)
    [​IMG]
    How do we know the location is La Londe A6?...well the white marking is there on the ground but it is very indistinct. However, the unmistakeable tie is the group of three stepped trees behind the near side wing tip - which are also present in the much clearer still below at the near side wing tip of the American C-47. Note in this still the white identifier 'A6' marking is pin sharp:
    [​IMG]
    Below is a nice shot of the under wing squadron marking 'NK 3':
    [​IMG]
    So, who is this 'NK 3' visitor?

    I had a look at this Wiki page which lists the RAF squadron code letters and came up with three possibilities:
    [​IMG]
    The problem is not quite as big as I first thought.

    No. 118 Squadron RAF appears to have been stationed at RAF Skeabrae in the Orkney Islands from March to July 1944.

    No. 163 Squadron RAF seems to have been disbanded between June 1943 and January 1945.

    The best option, in my view, is that 'NK 3' belongs to No. 31 General Reconnaissance School which was based at RCAF/RAF Station Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, Canada. The Wiki article refers to the School as being equipped with Avro Ansons, however it appears to have been disbanded in February 1944. So our new found visitor is likely to be a 'former' No. 31 GRS aircraft now in use as a ferry plane by some other squadron.

    Can anyone put some flesh on the bones :huh:

    Comments and corrections welcomed and appreciated.

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  14. Francois Dumas

    Francois Dumas Administrator
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    http://rwrwalker.ca/RCAF_detailed_11651_11700.htm

    A list with the Anson's of RCAF. A search revealed no indication yet of any of them in Normandy ......
    [hr]
    Maybe of interest. 1312 Flight of RAF had 6 aircraft for transport to the ALG's in Normandy, two of which Anson's. Their designation is NK6xx, so maybe the NK3 is missing two digits as well?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._1312_Flight_RAF
     
  15. John Szweda

    John Szweda Administrator
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    Oct 25, 2012
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    Francois,
    You make a good point... The Invasion stripes may have been painted right over the top of the remaining numbers.

    John
     
  16. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Thanks for the links François,

    This extract from your second link to the Wiki page of No. 1312 Flight RAF does indeed seem to fit well with what we see in the new footage:

    Can you confirm if the NKxxx number is the serial number of the aircraft or a Squadron/Flight identifier?

    The invasion stripes may well be hiding additional digits as you suggest John.

    While searching last night in order to add to this new find, I came across these three great photographs on my hard disk - I cannot recall if I had found them myself on the web or if someone here had sent them to me:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    They had no captions as to location but were very probably, in my view, taken on the re-supply mission to La Londe A-6 on the 12th June to replenish mortar and other ammunition as per this extract from Shawn Younger's World War II Archives site:
    [​IMG]
    The location ties 'G' (large bulldozed gap) and 'J' (hedgerow junction) marked on two of the three photographs are shown below on this extract from NCAP_ACIU_US7GR_1857_8010 flown on the same date; 12th June:
    [​IMG]
    Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk

    Great photographs, especially the first one - I wonder why they never surfaced on the web before?

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  17. Francois Dumas

    Francois Dumas Administrator
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    May 18, 2013
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    According to this site the NK's are indeed aircraft serial numbers. Built between January and December 1944 in the UK...

    800 aircraft ordered from A.V. Roe & Co. Ltd., Yeadon, Leeds, to contract B137211/40. Delivered as 592 Mk.Is, 103 Mk.Xs, 90 Mk.XIs and 15 Mk.XIIs between January and November, 1944.
    NK139 - NK149 Mk.I 11
    NK150 - NK151 Mk.XII 2
    NK152 - NK187 Mk.I 36 (2) NK178, NK183 converted to Mk.X
    NK199 - NK244 46 (1) NK234 converted to Mk.X
    NK260 - NK303 44 (1) NK262 converted to Mk.X
    NK315 - NK351 37
    NK352 - NK354 Mk.X 3
    NK355 Mk.I 1
    NK356 Mk.X 1
    NK368 - NK369 2
    NK370 - NK406 Mk.I 37
    NK419 - NK425 7

    Now to find which one of them was it !

    http://britishaviation-ptp.com/avro652_2.html
     
  18. Pat Curran

    Pat Curran Administrator
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    Oct 20, 2012
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    Co. Kilkenny, Ireland
    Hi François,

    I am a bit confused now...would RAF aircraft serial numbers be placed on the underside of wings and in such big lettering? I though they only marked the number in small lettering on the side of the rear fuselage?

    Regards,

    Pat
     
  19. Francois Dumas

    Francois Dumas Administrator
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    Haha..... in hindsight, I am confused myself and trying to figure it out. But will not be here much the coming week (we're going to visit Checkpoint Charlie).... I'll report back when I have more info.

    Update:
    Been leafing through my book of Avro Anson Warpaint and it gets more complicated. Indeed the actual aircraft serial was usually (but not always) painted on the fuselage rear end towards the tail. And there are N-numbers used in the RAF but also in the RCAF and RNZAF. Sometimes this exact SAME number was also the registration painted up/under the wings. In other cases the 'squadron designation' was a totally different set of characters and/or numbers.

    Haven't found the NK-range yet, other than in that list I posted earlier.

    The search continues......
     
  20. marketc47

    marketc47 Active Member
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    Feb 15, 2013
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    Hi Pat,

    Those are indeed great photos. Wonder about the original source.

    Hans
     

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