I am Randy Fuhrman, son of Harold Fuhrman that is listed on the MACR for chalk #5 of the Keokuk mission. I know for a fact from copies of letters to my dad that all the enlisted men in the chalk were members of Division Headquarters.
"Glider No. 5, carrying one of the division radios, flown by F/O Ketchmun and Baldwin, aborted over England shortly after take-off. Both pilots could not get back to the field in time to get another glider and catch up with the formation. Later in the day, June 6,they flew in the second series of Horsa, also No. 5, from Aldermaston, carrying troopers of the 327th Glider Infantry. They landed at 9:00pm in daylight, ripped a wing off in a rough landing, and all, after exiting the glider,were captured by the enemy." Part of this is in not correct. Chalk #5 of the Keokuk mission carried troops from Division HQ of the 101st according to the MACR for Chalk #5.
Morning All, Can I ask you guys to have a look at the Horsa in the top right (NE) corner of the field adjoining the Pond Field on the southern hedgerow. I just spotted something this morning at breakfast (when the grey cells are at their best ). Does that Horsa have a bit missing from the trailing outer edge of the starboard wing - the wing pointing to the north east and upwards (the port side is touching the ground). I think I may have found a ground photograph and footage of this glider which is very likely to be a 'Keokuk' member. Sorry about the cryptic description - I'll post the full theory with screenshots tonight. Thanks, Pat
OK, Here is what I have found. First, for those readers who may not know the location of the Pond Field: Below is an extract from NCAP_ACIU_US7GR_1857_4052 covering the area of the red rectangle above: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.ukWe have already done extensive work on the Pond Field cluster which I will repost when I get a chance. This time however, I want to concentrate on the lone Horsa circled red above in the field to the south. Note this field also appears to have a 'pond' in its north west corner. The Horsa is tipped over with the tip of the port side wing resting on the ground. This morning I was looking through Tyler Alberts '101st Airborne Division - Normandy Series' DVD (old version) in the hope of moving the ball forward on Keokuk Horsas. At time mark 32:00, I came across a few seconds of footage showing a single Horsa in the corner of a field with apparent damage to the trailing edge of the outer starboard wing: This ground footage then reminded me of a well know still shot which I am now pretty sure shows the same glider: So how am I so sure there is a tie to the Horsa in 1857_4052? Below is a zoomed version showing shadows of the spruce tree line on the western hedgerow of this field. I have numbered 1-5 what I believe to be the same trees as that seen in the ground still photograph - sorry Don, there are just too many to name Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk Note the same damage to the trailing edge of the outer starboard wing in the zoomed extract below with the missing section indicated by the broken green lines: With a little faith, I think I can see the same notch in the shadow of the wing taken from the 1857_4052 extract below: Also, note the sunlight falling on the grass around the far side of a tree below which I take to be the narrow gap between the pond and the western hedgerow: The linkage to the footage is the weakest but I am pretty sure the lone spruce tree therein is casting the single shadow seen in 1857_4052 as indicated. If this is all correct (I am very close to my 80% certainty threshold but could still be wrong), then we are very likely looking at a 'Keokuk' Horsa IMHO, and the similarity to 'Edna' stuck in the western hedgerow of the Pond Field' is striking - no white number on the fuselage (though 'Edna' does have a very faint '16' visible in good quality copies of this common photograph: I could be wrong, but I wonder if 'Keokuk' Horsas were marked with something other than paint or chalk - perhaps 'whitewash' or some other water soluble product which washed off relatively quickly in the rain? Do we have any confirmed 'Keokuk' Horsa ground photographs which would show the style of numbering used? Comments and corrections welcomed and appreciated. Regards, Pat
Hi Pat, I think you have a match. Now on the image where you use a green dashed line to show where the Starboard wing flap was, and in the close up where you see the orange oval showing a possible gap in the hedgerow, do you see a number 12 on the starboard side a little higher and closer to the windows on the Horsa then the 16 is on the EDNA Horsa? John
Hi John, Are you referring to what looks like part of the digit '2' as arrowed below? Anyone make out the name? Regards, Pat
Pat, No, much more forward in this photo.... just about where the 16 appears on the EDNA Horsa, but a little higher and closer to the canopy windows. I sent you a quick private e-mail with it circled in red. John
Pat, great job finding this match. John, I agree. I also see a very faint “12” in the location that you have identified. If this glider is in fact Keokuk Chalk #12, then this fits nicely with Don’s Keokuk “fan-out” theory. To recap this theory; after approaching the LZ from the NE, the left side of the first half of the Keokuk lift (Chalks #1, 2, 5, 6, 9, 10, 13, 14) fanned out to the left to the southern portions of the LZ E in the Big Dipper area. The right side (Chalks #3, 4, 7, 8, 11, 12, 15, 16) fanned out to the right more to the north in the SW to NW quadrant of the LZ. Our research to date indicates that the probable landing site of the right side of the first row (Chalks #3 and 4) is the field south of the Pratt Memorial. The right side of the next row (Chalks # 7 and 8) most likely landed further to the north. We have identified a field about 250 yards south of the CP at Lecaudey Farm as the probable landing site of Chalk #8. (See the Lecaudey thread for research concerning Chalks #3, 4 and 8.) While we haven’t done any research about Chalk #7, Don and I suspect one of the Horsas in Pratt Field is the most likely candidate for this glider. Going further north to the NW corner of the LZ, this leaves the vicinity of Pond Field as the most likely landing site for Chalks #11,12,15,16. With “Edna” possibly being identified as Chalk #16 and this new glider possibly identified as Chalk #12, this completes the arc presented in Don’s theory. I think this new information also further supports our theories about Chalks #3,4 and 8. Comments? Regards, Kevin
My dad took this picture in June of 1969 while he was in Normandy for the 25th anniversary of D-Day. It simply says "Field taken prisoner". It has been determined that he was in Chalk #5 of the Keokuk mission. I know it's not much and there are no landmarks to determine where this is exactly, but I thought it was pretty cool. [/img]
Hi Guys, John, I see it now that you marked it It does indeed appear to be the same style as 'Edna' - well spotted Randy, is your dad's photo a Kodacrome transparency by any chance? If yes, is it possible to scan it to see if there is any more detail in the hedgerow? At first glance, this field looks very like a marsh meadow - very like what I would expect to see in the area holding the 'Big Dipper' Horsa group. Thanks for posting this photo. Regards, Pat
Pat, the picture of the field where my dad was taken prisoner was taken from a 35mm slide and I have no way of enhancing it.
Thanks Randy, I had a go at it in PS and ended up with this: The pixels showing the hedgerow are a bit mushed but there is enough there to see that the relative size of the trees indicates the middle foreground is quite deep; several hundred yards I would estimate...but where :dodgy: Regards, Pat
Hi Pat and Randy, I took a look at a copy of the color version, and when I increase the brightness and contrast I think it shows a lower hedgerow from roughly the left edge treeline to about 1/4 of the way towards the center. It shows up as a lighter grey in your Black and white version. Maybe that could also help identify the area. There also may be a hint of a telephone pole in that area, but it leans too much in my opinion. John
This is a very rough sketch of the landing area for Chalk #5 of the Keokuk mission as contained in the MACR for this glider. [/img]
Hi Guys, As luck would have it, IGN have cover flown a month after Randy's Dad took the colour slide of the field where he was taken prisoner. Here is a down sized version of one frame from this flight. Hiesville is at centre top: My favourite 'Ballintine' field is within the red rectangle and zoomed to below: Sadly there is no manicured hedge :s If you want to download this or other frames from the over flight, I have created a demo here on the procedure for those of you who do not read French. I took the screenshots used in the demo while downloading the frame above. My thanks to Patrick for the original instruction on the download procedure. If, having downloaded this frame, or perhaps the one due north, please do post any possible matches for Randy's ground photograph. Randy, the sketch map from the MACR for #5 has been the subject of much debate on the old BB forum. IIRC, Don and Patrick geopositioned it over a Google Earth extract. The location is shown as south west of Vierville but our reconnaissance cover to date does not show any good candidates at that (rough) location, though there are long and deep evening shadows obscuring the eastern side of all north/south hedgerows in our cover. Regards, Pat
Hello, everyone - I am Alane Alden and new to the forum. I was very fortunate to receive a WWII collection from a family member who knew Alfred J. Sapa in Stalag Luft III. His name was Leavitt Shertzer and he roomed with Al. In the course of researching Alfred Sapa, I wanted to study Keokuk too. So I'd like to share some data I found. Some of the information you may already have, but I'll just send everything I came across. Hopefully you'll find it helpful. I have an entry to make on the Lecaudey Farm thread as well. First, the group photograph of 15 glider pilots, which included John Ballintine (#5): I was able to find two WWII-era photographs of an individual I think I can identify in the photo. Standing next to John, I believe, is Lyle B. Kinney, pilot #4. I also believe Alfred Sapa is in the photograph too -- the pilot kneeling, #15. Two photographs of him are in a book I ordered, "World War II Glider Pilots" by Turner Publishing, copyright 1991. Regards, Alane
Hello, all - To conclude with the "World War II Glider Pilots" book, J. Bryan Sims Jr. [Chalk 9] is covered on page 141. The fourth paragraph quotes Sims as follows: "Because of extensive time in the Horsa I flew lead glider for our group D-Day afternoon. This extra training paid off as I was able to make a 90% turn on final to avoid capture. The crews of the three gliders assigned to same landing area were all captured." In an obituary for J. Bryan Sims in 2006, it notes that he piloted "a British glider equipped with a Jeep with trailer and 13 men..." Harold Axelson [Chalk 28] provided an oral interview in 2006 for the Dixon Library, Dixon, CA. He reported that on his glider the "load was two jeeps and three airborne troops." He added that when airborne, a passenger came forward to tell him that the glider's left wheel had dropped off at takeoff. Regards, Alane
Hello, everyone - thank you for your posts welcoming me to this forum. I'll continue with my input. Please disregard whatever is already known or not necessary. The collection of Alfred R. Fratzke, passenger on Remington Ketcham's glider [chalk 5], is with the Veteran's History Project in the Library of Congress. It contains an oral interview on VHS as well as photographs plus typed and hand-written correspondence. A newspaper article dated May 8, 2005 in the Daily Herald of Arlington Heights, Illinois mentions Steve Odahowski [chalk 13] who talks about his glider landing: "Steve Odahowski thought the rifle fire came from American paratroopers, welcoming his arrival ...He brought down the British Horsa glider right where the beacon indicated, but conditions had changed. The rifle fire was German...Soon they were looking down the barrels of German guns...They took the Americans' guns and cigarettes. As they were escorted back to the German camp, two SS officers berated the soldiers for not shooting the prisoners while they still were armed." I have another interesting newspaper account to share with you. Regards, Alane [hr] Hello again -- Benjamin Klein [Chalk 21] was interviewed in a New York Times article on October 1, 2010: "Mr. Klein sailed in hours later on a large, British-made Horsa glider loaded with 10 tons of equipment - two jeeps and seven men that was being towed by a C-47....they were over Utah Beach, at the right flank of the attack. Once freed from the towline, the glider and its crew had perhaps a 90-second descent 1,000 feet to the ground in a field near St. Marie du Mont. There were tall hedgerows, and they landed in the biggest space they saw. The glider skidded out of control and slammed into a tree, which Mr. Klein said sheared off the right wing and cut through the aircraft mere inches from his face. 'It was pandemonium, firing in all directions,' he said. The rule of thumb was to run away from shrill fast fire of the Germans' Schmeisser machine guns, and toward the more laconic firing of the Army's machine guns." My next input concerns William F. Finn. Regards, Alane [hr] To all -- William F. Finn was interviewed on January 25, 2008 together with his wife at the Coal City Library in Coal City, Illinois. The interview was recorded and lasts 56 minutes. You can actually hear the interview online. Search "William Finn idaillinois.org". You will see 'Finn,William and Vivian Audio Recording' appear. I transcribed the conversation re: Keokuk. Excerpts: "We had a jeep, and a trailer and about four men besides the pilot and co-pilot... We cut loose...and he started banking around to land, and we kept going and we kept going and we kept going... we hit the ground - right through a hedgerow... And we hit that thing and went crashing through. Nobody got hurt actually. ...pretty soon here comes a guy trying, running from the other side of the hedgerow. He says, 'They're coming out of the woods over there like mad.' ....Pilots, there weren't too many landing in our particular area. But there were a couple of others, like I say, a couple guys that got hit there and there were others. One of the pilots crossed the hedgerow to go on the other side. So I don't know. I don't know what happened to him. If they got him or not." Interesting. Regards, Alane [hr] To all -- More concerning William Finn - he obtained a diary some time soon after his capture and entered immediately what he could remember: "...Six members of our company with a jeep and trailer loaded with signal equipment just barely survived the crash into the hedgerow with our Horsa glider. Shortly after we landed, we were overtaken. The Germans were apparently waiting for the invasion. I was taken prisoner in Carentan, France. June 7 - Searched in Periers, then taken to Saint Lo." I have to say, once in a while, I do wonder if William Finn could have been on the Sapa/Ballintine glider. I have one more item that follows. Regards, Alane