Hi Neil, If I was a collector, I would think knowing the location of a photo would also add value...but I have no experience in this arena. Regards, Pat
Hi All, Just downloaded the Sortie Index Plot for sortie ACIU 140/334 and as can be seen from the extract below, frames 3125/4114 are the first two which S/Ldr Longley captured on the final leg of his mission as he turns NW over Carentan for the run up the east coast of the Cotentin: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk I am going to order a high resolution copy of frame 3126 for the reasons John suggested in post #33...though from the legend on the Sortie Plot, I don't think we will be able to read any chalk numbers Altitude: 30,000 ft Lense Focal Length: 36" Scale: 1/10,000 The sortie has an mean time of 17.30 hours, which probably puts these frames behind Utah Beach somewhat closer to 18.00 hours. Regards, Pat
My aspirations are many Neil I would like to see which way the two Horsas and the Waco are pointing in the second field in order to confirm the ties to the ground footage. Also, I am curious about the 'F' feature in the E3/R15 field. In addition, I would hope to advance the 'German PoWs with French Guide' thread as the column appears to be traceable into the area covered by this frame. The Brecourt Battery Field is there in full also, together with activity in many fields not seen in earlier coverage. Regards, Pat
OK, I'm going to take a wild stab at Horsa E2 and who flew it. Listen to this interview by F/O Melvin Pliner, 82nd TCS, 436th TCG. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2bovz5hjs0&t=969s Mel was on Detached Service to the 437th TCG for D-Day and was assigned to fly Horsa LH246 in Serial 34 of Mission Galveston (position 17). Serial 34 had a new LZ assigned due to heavy ground fire being observed by earlier serials at LZ W. The new LZ was just west of Sainte Marie du Mont. If you start listening to the interview from 13:40 onwards it describes Mel's landing. He mentions seeing St Mere Eglise but I think he was actually seeing Sainte Marie du Mont. He mentions that to try and lose some ground speed as the hedgerow was fast approaching, he pulled back on the stick to lift the nose of the Horsa and slammed it down hard pushing the nose undercarriage in through the fuselage. So, we're now looking for a Horsa which is probably resting on it's nose. Sounds familiar? Now if you check the 82nd Airborne statistical study of glider landings. Horsa LH246 is listed as landing 6000 yards SE of the designated LZ. If you take this as LZ W with Les Forges being in the centre, 6000 yards SE takes you exactly to the fields next to the crossroads. I've always had a gut feeling that the chalk markings of these Horsa's are from the 437th since the only confirmed Serial 34 Horsa we know is that of the Holdy Horsa which has a Chalk marking of R5 in exactly the same style/font as the crossroad Horsa's. [IMG=900x418]http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e47/jonesn152/16833530_10155010698603904_1042269914_o_zpsxlusmi8p.png[/IMG] [IMG=900x101]http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e47/jonesn152/16880935_10155010687963904_1089159726_o_zps9jnnbu1u.png[/IMG] It's a theory of mine and probably no way to confirm. What do you guys think? Neil. Edited by Pat to reduce image width to 900 pixels.
Neil, Are you able to access Pat's Adrive account? There is a book "The 307th Airborne Engineer Battalion in Normandy" by Peter Turnbull that has specific relatable information about these Horsas from pages 36-37, and pages 42-47. John
Hi all, For those following, I believe the Glider Manifest documents that identify the soldiers of the three Horsa's E1, E2, and E3 are in the book "The 307th Airborne Engineer Battalion in Normandy" by Peter Turnbull. Neil, have you reviewed them and do you agree? John
Hi John. I completely agree with what's in Peter Turnbull's book. This pretty much completes all the information about those three Horsas. We know the Glider Pilots and the Serial that they were flying, the men and cargo carried and their exact location.
Hi All, Finally took delivery of NCAP_ACIU_140/334_3125 last night and I am delighted to report that its a really good, sharp image; excellent in fact when you consider that Squadron Leader Longley was at 30,000ft when he began his run with this frame. The immediate area of interest here in this thread is of course the two Horsas E1 and E2 with the lone Waco, two fields west of the crossroads. So here is the view at high resolution: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk So, all three are pointing in the correct direction to tie with Tyler Alberts footage in his '101st US Airborne Division / Invasion of Normandy' DVD. That's the final nail I was looking for in order to confirm the theory in post #26 of this thread. I have marked the two Horsas 'E1' and 'E2' as indicated by Neil and John - what do you guys think now? I also note with interest what appears to be a wingless Horsa fuselage resting inside the SW hedge of the field in the NW Quadrant of the crossroads, together with a Waco in the northernmost corner therein. Below are screenshots which I am hoping will tie this 17th June cover of this field to several bits of ground footage showing a field holding German PoWs: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk Note how the gap in the ash tress is not present in the D-Day cover from sortie NCAP_ACIU_US30_4078_1004, but is very apparent in the new 17th June sortie. I have more ties, but so far what say you guys to this theory? Regards, Pat
Hi Pat! Amazing how so much has been tied together! I feel very good that you have everything correct! John
Hi John, Yes, I think there is a lot of new information now in place following examination of the new frame 3125. I want to have a look at the corner of the field at the crossroads tonight. There is a lot of activity in this corner in the new cover when you compare the view from NCAP_ACIU_US30_4078_1004 flown on D-Day. Note the two common features in both photographs however; the possible German MG position and the protruding brush feature coming into the field from the D913 road hedgerow: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.ncap.org.uk I had a look at the well know footage of the German PoW with the loose cap ear flaps, a copy of which is on the Critical Past site here, and discovered that the man is being searched in the field, not as I always thought on the road. Below are three screenshots showing this scene: It looks to me like the MPs are using the protruding brush as a screen in order to search and question individual PoWs out of sight of the main body of prisoners, some of which can be seen lying on the grass in what I term the 'PoW Cage'. Note the MP down on his hunkers - he seems to be resting on slightly raised ground, which I take to be the earth mound at the base of the protruding brush feature. Note the line-of-sight to the calvary crucifix in the first two screenshots. There is also a well worn track down into the 'PoW Cage' area which turns round the possible MG position between it and a jeep. The whole setup seems to be well coordinated. More follows... Regards, Pat
Also now wondering about this scene from the same CP footage: Could this be the wall of the calvary? I searched for old postcards and eventually found one: Its obviously not the same wall finish, but then neither is the crucifix. There is a photo somewhere out there showing a GI, back to camera, taking a photo of the crucifix. Anyone come across it? Thanks, Pat
Found a copy; Its in French researcher Michel Le Querrec's Flickr account here. The GI is not photographing the cross but rather kneeling in prayer, according to the Signal Corps caption. In any event, the photo does not show enough of the railing and wall to be of help here. Regards, Pat
Hi Pat, The calvary in the Flickr photo does match the Critical past video stills but I don't see much of any wall around it. I think the postcard from the 20's or 30's is difficult to compare because nothing is the same and it seems the calvary had been completely changed since the postcard. I don't think the calvary is the location of the wall, but it could be. Because it is tucked in so closely to shrubs it will be difficult to find. I do wonder if the MP's may have moved over closer to the Brecourt Manor buildings and if it could be a wall from that area. anybody familiar enough with the manor? John
Hi John, I just zoomed in very tight on the two CP screenshots using my tablet's touch screen and I think there is a sloping top to the wall, with hedging protruding just above it on the inside. I am more confident now having seen this than I was last night. If it is the calvary wall, it must be the D913 (East) wall as the front would be a low feature carrying the railing in both old and new (1944) versions. The whole site has been moved as far as I know for road realignment purposes, with no wall now remaining. Been to Brecourt a few times and cannot recall seeing this plasterwork from the road at the back of the farmhouse. Regards, Pat
Another view; This screenshot from one of Tyler's DVDs is looking southwards to the crossroads on the D14 with the D913 crossing left to right: Is there a honeycomb pattern plasterwork visible above both front fenders of the Dodge truck? Regards, Pat