Hello There is no specific report for a serial at AFHRA. All the information I have come from the diaries of groups & squadrons. And they are not equal. for exemple there are only 5 pages for the 80th TCS for the month of june.. (same for the 3 other squadrons).. No operations order, no combat crews.. nothing
A bit more... The subject column of the 'German PoWs with French Guide' thread contains some links to footage which might be of use here...it could even be the same PoW column which was photographed in the above referenced locations. Regards, Pat
Don, Is this the map you are looking for? The lone Waco beside the pond seems to be marked with the black dot...not sure how many Horsas each red triangle is meant to represent. Ignore the purple markings readers; they refer to another quest. Regards, Pat
Hello All, I'm amazed at how much I forget. I found some more information that Mr. Randolph sent me on the 80sq. The following is a list of the glider pilots that flew into Normandy. I do not know if the list follows any order. 436th TCG 80th Sq Glider pilots that flew into Normandy June 6th 1944 George W. Ford – Thomas J. Moore Jr. “Irish” James E. Lowell – Edward Grzesiek Hugh Robb – Levin Gosney Charles B. Ellington “Smoky” – Joe Gilreath Lowell D. Bowers – Kenneth Ensor “Ray” Oran Ramsey – Sam Southall Wade Beckwith – S. J. Howard Leonard R Jevne – Own Gregory Joe Bickett – Sherfry Randolph “Tip” Charles Carlozzi – Earl Dust “Dusty” Robert Jeep – Jack Hamm Bruce Norton – John Tyndal John R. Sayler – Bert Humphey Tom Brown – William Henley I hope this will help with the research. Be Well Dave [hr] John, All, The following is an excerpt from a "letter" that Mr. Randolph sent me. It may address some of the questions that John brought up. "Thoughts turn to tomorrow as we are escorted from the flight line back to our barracks. Earlier on the afternoon of June glider pilots assembled to be briefed on the Elmira mission we would fly. The elation we felt realizing we were going to be involved was dampened somewhat by words from the group intelligence officer. " group will put up 2 CG4-A and 48 Horsa gliders". Next came a report of possible weather conditions (haze and clouds). Then the time schedule that really deflated most of us "The lead glider should pick up the light signal from the panel on the ground and get the green light from the tow ship at 22:45". Immediately the mind forms a picture of two possible circumstances. We knew that British Double Summer Time on clear evenings would provide enough light to make out field shapes and objects at 22:45 and get a Horsa on the ground in one piece. On a cloudy night we would be almost completely blind insofar as seeing the ground until you are too close to make any correction. Couple that with the BBC forecast of inclement conditions for the next several days. As we sit and stare at each other the early invincible attitude we entered the room with has turned into anxiety and fears of impending disaster. Pictures of the LZ are passed out to each person. We are told there is nothing higher than twelve-foot hedgerows surrounding most fields. A question was asked about some sort of square objects in most of the fields. The answer "cows that will probably scatter as you land". Well we never practiced landing in a field with cows. Glider chalk numbers were called out and two man crews were named for each chalk number. Joe Bickett and I will be number 17. We were given some time to study the photos and map up front before going to the line where the gliders were being loaded. We had been told we would be carrying 82" Airborne artillery. Joe and I walked down the row of gliders to chalk number 17. All up and down the line airborne personal were unloading trucks with support equipment. Others were loading pack 75mm howitzers and jeeps. The men loading our glider stopped their loading and looked at Joe then to me. A Sgt. jumped to the ground to inquire if we were to fly this glider. We nodded, introduced ourselves and met the men that will fly with us. Sgt. Wallace Edwards, Cpl. Elden E Smith, Pfc. Clarence W. Anderson, John T. McGee and Marlin C. Farmer our crew for the howitzer and Jeep being loaded as we walked up. In addition to these two major pieces they must have the tools making it possible to be effective using the gun suck, as Aiming stakes, fuse setter, rammer, drag rope, tool chest, troughs and floor plates. Add to this two rocket launchers with twelve rounds of ammo, twenty one rounds of seventy five mm ammo and seven people armed to the teeth with rifles, pistols, ammo, grenades and a back pack with K-rations, sox, cigarettes, tooth brush, candy, blanket and escape maps. When our entire load is totaled we are grossing out considerable over the recommended 15,800 pounds at 16,767 pounds. In training we had flown with up to 1200 pound over loads. This over weight was not a cause for alarm although it will have a small effect on stall speed. A load manifest is originated by the airborne for each glider and given to group and squadron to list crews and chalk numbers. It is then returned in triplicate to the senior passenger to use as a check sheet. When the loading is completed all copies are signed by the senior passenger, glider pilot and tug pilot prior to takeoff with each retaining a copy. C-47 tugs parked in the center of the runway and chalk marked. Gliders are lined on both sides of the runway. Ground crews lay out and attach the towropes. As returning planes land they taxied to their squadron hard stands for damage inspection. Although there was considerable damage to some aircraft all returned to base. Those not grounded were assigned chalk numbers and made ready to take their starting position on the center of the runway. We were beside our glider on June 6th watching as planes were taxing on the runway moving into takeoff position. We hoped it might be an 80th plane instead it was from the 79th squadron. The crew came over to the glider and introduced themselves. The Pilot Captain Gordon Gaylord Smith was a most highly regarded flight leader in the 79th squadron. The Captain was to give us a perfect tow to LZW. Later his ship did not waver as we flew through heavy ground fire. His crew members were Copilot 2nd Lt. William Frederick Swiger, Navigator (not all crews had one) 2" Lt. Robert Attrel Yetzer, Crew Chief Tech Sgt. Harold David Moncrief and Radio Operator Staff Sgt. James NMI Petrakos. We were beginning to feel better now knowing that very strong resolute men are accompanying us. Back at the glider pilot barracks Joe writes another letter to his wife before supper time, a card game is going on, several of us are sitting out back watching Jack Hamm trying to teach his pet ferret move forward and stop on command. Smokey Ellington is playing his guitar and singing some of his favorite Ernie Tubbs songs. Charlie Carlozzi is tuning his violin and will play some current Glen Miller songs. Soon it was time to go back down to the line and board our gliders. Captain Smith and his crew stood beside our glider, we shook hands all around wished each other good luck. Smith's parting words were "Hang on my old Gooney Bird will get us there." Joe and I climbed in to the glider and the Sgt. Closed and locked the door. I was looking at the faces of our Passengers they really do not appear to feel very well about the situation right now. We said nothing fearing that anything we might say would have no calming effect at all. As we settled into our seats and fastened our seat belts a flare lit up the sky the signal for the planes to start their engines. Joe and I looked at each other and nodded realizing we would soon be on our way. We turned to have one more look back to find Sgt. Edwards leaning as far forward as his safety belt would permit. He shouted above the roar of engines starting up." Get us on the ground in one piece and we will keep you from harm on the ground. Joe was seldom with out pad and pen and had pulled both from his jacket. He started writing and held up the pad for me to read. He had written air pressure ok and on a second line the word airspeed. These were to serve as important reminders that we needed full pressure for flap control. Airspeed, we wanted to know at what speed this bird would stall with the load we carried. We wanted to be able walk her down to the ground at just above stalling in order to have a minimum roll before coming to a full stop. By careful observation at takeoff we could feel this just before attaining flying speed and record air speed. It is now our turn as the tow plane slowly takes up the slack in our towrope and pulls us to the center of the runway. The flagman up in front of tow plane off to the left side of the runway waves us on. Slowly we start to roll all the while gaining speed, with slight pressure on the wheel **the nose wheel is making less noise. Joe is reading 64 as the nose wheel clears the ground we begin to feel light at 70. At 76 with very little wheel back pressure we lift off. We have full control at 80 all the while the tow plane still on the runway is gaining speed. At a speed of 103 it lifts off and starts a slow climb as the group forms and heads south toward the Portland Bill marker a point where we leave the English Coast Dusk is settling rapidly the landscape is one of shadows and dimming light. Our glider with a small amount of trimming is flying hands off trailing perfectly. As we leave England we are seeing many blinking lights below that turn out to be ships of all sizes headed in the same direction toward France. It seemed that an army could have walked from ship to ship all the way to France there were so many. I am thinking the Germans do not have a chance if all of these ships can offload their troops and equipment. We swing to the left running parallel to the French coast now aright turn as we head to shore. The sun has set and darkness is fast approaching suddenly we are drawing ground fire red and yellow tracers some bright some pale. I immediately thought of Christmas lights I do not know why. Reality set in quickly when a couple bullets bounced off either the jeep or the 75 howitzer making a sharp metal to metal sound. Other bullets going through some of the heavier plywood structure made sort of a dull thud. There was no time to dwell on the fire works display as we were lowering down to 400 ft to be ready for cut off. One of the planes in the flight of 4 just ahead of us had an engine burst into flame. He continued on to the LZ the glider released and he went into a diving turn put out the fire and flew back to Membury. I notice Joe pumping his air tank and asked if we were losing air. "No he yelled back just checking". We have been given the green light. Off tow we turn left straining in the darkness to see the ground. Another left turn and we are slowed to 80. Off to our left we see what appears to be a tree on fire that is dimly casting light on what appears a rectangular field. We turn left again and line up for a final approach. The fire that should been in front of us is not there. At 75 feet we brush though the top of some trees and the horizon appears. Full flaps are applied with nose pointed down we take an elevator like ride to thirty feet and hall the wheel all the way back. Joe is still reading altitude when we hit the ground hard and stop within a few hundred feet. Two Horsa gliders were in this field before us apparently running into each other on the ground after landing. We had barely gotten out of our glider when another Horsa touched down at a high speed and crashed in to the hedgerow at the end of the field. LZW was not completely in the hands of our troops, gunfire could be heard in any direction. We were crouched down behind the landing gear and wheels trying to make out the situation when a body came crawling across the field using his cricket that everyone had been given he told us that the clear place on this field was to our rear. Sgt. Edwards issueded orders to blow the tail unload and race to the end of the field. In less than five minutes we were at the end border where we found 12 or more 82nd troopers. Edwards was able to contact his head quarters and was advised to stay put for the remainder of the night. It was now past midnight. We were joined later by more troopers. The men from the two gliders that ran into each other with their jeep and trailer joined us. We never saw any of the men from the crashed glider. Next morning D plus 1 we were able to locate our position northeast of a road between Les Forges and Ste Mere-Eglise. The battery was ordered to a position one-mile east to support an area between Les Forges and Hiesville. Joe and I remained with Sgt. Edwards since no one knew for sure where the headquarters CP was located. Gunfire seemed to be all around. The 75 was staked down and aimed at the new location awaiting the fire order. Some five minutes later the word, lee they (OP were to move to a new position. The area the guns were aimed foward was thought to contain just as many Americans as Germans. This condition prevailed for the next twelve hours. As we moved from place to place we saw how the carnage of war can be so devastating. A few long days ago we thought we were headed for a great adventure. By D plus 4 it had turned to an unbelievable numbing and frightening experience. All glider pilots still with our battery were called to a command post southwest of Les Forges east of the town of Carquebut. From a near by field hospital we were to accompany twenty-eight "walking wounded" men to the beach for evacuation to England. On the way we passed many troops and a lot of heavy equipment headed to battle. At the beach we checked in with the navy beach master in charge of sending people out to larger ships returning to Portsmouth. Staggering amounts of men and equipment were being off loaded. I thought how happy the Airborne troops will be when all this gets into place. I had laid down feeling very tired and fell to sleep. Some six hours later Joe kicking me in the foot awakened me. It was time the get aboard and sail to Portsmouth. Upon our return to Membury our group commander was to welcome us home and to tell us that all 80th squadron glider pilots were now safely back." Im sorry to post such a long "letter" but, it may answer a few questions. Be Well Dave
Dave, General Order #33 lists all the Glider Pilots who flew in the D-Day missions. I'll post up the 80th TCS section when I get home from work. Patrick may beat me to it though.
"Two Horsa gliders were in this field before us apparently running into each other on the ground after landing. We had barely gotten out of our glider when another Horsa touched down at a high speed and crashed in to the hedgerow at the end of the field." An interesting quote in Mr. Randolph's "letter". Is this the "Ensor - Bower" glider?...crashing into the hedgerow. [hr] Thank you Would they note the order in General Order #33?
A four Horsa grouping with one in a hedgerow; I know of no good candidate other than those in the Pond Field. Regards, Pat
Here is the list of all Glider Pilots from the 80th TCS who participated in the glider serials on D-Day and D+1. A few of them were on detached service to other Troop Carrier Groups. Lt's Brown & Schiro and Flight Officers Schiller, Sheppard, Henson, Henley, Hicks, Harrison, Gill, Jackson, Hensley & Hewtt were on DS to the 437th TCG. [hr] I think La Londe needs consideration also as there are known Horsas in hedges around there.
Tom Brown and William Henley were in DS and flew during Galveston with the 437th TCG. Chalk #23 in serial #34 CG-4A #43-19723 38 glider pilots from the 80th TCS are listed in GO#33 and awarded the air medal. In this list 12 of them were in DS with the 437th TCS and flew all a CG-4A in serial #34 It means 26 GP flew with the 436. While the 80th TCS furnished 12 Horsas, one of the aircrew flew with a Horsa (or CG-4A) furnished by another squadron Too bad he don't have noted all the crews with their chalk numbers Exactly the same crew than during mission Albany and with a navigator because chalk #17 was in the left column, leading an element of four. Tug plane was #42-100519 [hr] Chalk #43 this serial landed at 356974
Thanks, Dave. The Randolph narrative is stirring stuff. What a great observer with an eye for detail and a gift for writing. As the house contrarian, and considering Randolph's writing skills and powers of observation, I can't see how the Pond Field can be described as being "northeast of a road between Les Forges and Ste Mere-Eglise." And the Raibl map seems to show a release point for Serial 32 somewhere in the La Londe area. That's 5 miles from the Pond Field. The 82AB AAR doesn't systematically list every glider - or even every serial (not by a long shot) - but it does detail some of the strays. With Randolph's riders surviving the landing and the night, seems odd that their story would have been left out of the AAR. And would it be tactically sound to put a lone gun into action miles from its battalion's assembly point and even farther from their eventual goal of getting to a point about 2 miles west of SME? I made an even bigger boo boo than placing Coquerie on the same latitude as the Pond Field. I had a brain outage and forgot that Charles Bass' father flew in Serial 32. Sorry Charles, your excellent research remains top drawer to me. I did such a convincing job of forgetting that I overlooked that his research yielded some of the reports I now wished for: http://normandy.whitebeamimages.ie/forum/thread-187.html Thanks, Pat, but the glider landing map I was referring to is from the 82AB AAR and published somewhere - remember, the one where it was impossible to distinguish between red and brown dots? Some of it is in the Bass thread. At the time, you and he had no need to analyze anything this far south. So, if you get a chance, would be interested in your thoughts on possibility of Serial 32 dots in the Pond Field neighborhood. So, am I saying the Pond Filed is impossible? No, I've learned better than to do that, but I remain a bit skeptical a Serial 32 Horsa could glide that far.
Thank you for the thoughtful comments. As you say, I found the Charles Bass research exceptional. In the thread " Whitebeam Battlefield Research Forum / Research Currently Underway / Air Forces / American / Troop Carrier & Glider Units v / Elmira Horsa Glider 03-16-2014, 05:51 PM Post: #16" There was a small paragraph with the notes from the 80th TCS: The 80th TCS reported that it also supplied a "12 plane glider tow" into France on 6/6/44. Two glider pilots were injured: 2nd Lt. Wade C. Beckwith hospitalized in England" and "Flight Officer Lowell D. Bowers hospitalized 1 week." In the image that has information from Mr. Randolph, he notes the Ensor - Bowers glider in the hedgegow. Could it be the injuries to F/O Bowers was from hitting the hedgegow? Please note, I am not saying this is the proof of the landing site of my father-in-law, Tom Moore ...only, possible additional information for Mr.Randolph's description of another glider passing closely and hitting the hedgegow. I too, think it important to gather all possibilities for a landing site. I'm trying to take in all this information....like drinking from a fire hose sometimes! I appreciate your thoughts and comments. Be Well Dave
Finally reading the posts on my PC, which works much better as a Phone. Also for writing a reply. There sure are things to reply to. My biggest fear with testimaonies is that they are 'coloured' by false information or images that look similar/familiar. At that point it would be interesting if there would be stories of other 80th TCS glider pilots on this mission. For the tow plane crew, it usually was dificult to remember the names of an entire crew. Unless Mr. Randolph had his loding manifest, it would seem remarkable if he remembered the names of all crewmembers of his tow plane. With the knowledge that Mr. Rndolph was very active within the National WW2 Glider Pilot Association, andhis contacts with similar active guys from other squadrons in the 436th, they might have puzzled all those names together. Or ued the crew information for the parachute drop by the 79th TCS. Mr. Randolph mentioned that the glider that landed shortly after he had landed crashed into the hedge. The glider on the Pond-field does not look to me like it 'crashed' into the hedgerow. Nor does it look to me that the pilots would be hospitalized. Now, the names of the 82nd A/B men are mentioned. Are they 319th or 320th? Also mentioned was an 82nd A/B map with the plotted gliders. I know they had such a map for Holland. do they have such for D-day? If so, who could help with that? Phil Nordyke has been active on this forum, did he do some research into any of these two units? For the 319th there are 2 books (I got only one) but have not checked for detals. Another point of interest seems (to me) the way the chalk numbers were written. At this point I still think the 436th TCG gliders had their chalk number like the Hoaston glider. Can we confirm all 436th gliders had the chalk number like that? or would that have been depending on the Airborne unit (319th, 320th and a few others in that Serial). I will be checking 'Battery' laer today. Hope to find something in there. The map in it gives as landng location for the 319th the area north-east of Ste.-Mere-Eglise. [hr] Good read, the book 'Battery'. Apparently 40 gliders with 319th which reminded me te check the 82nd glider roster (no access now). Did email Mr. Randolph's son for loading manifest info.
Hans, The Hoatson Horsa is the only one that can be identified to being with the 436th TCG. The others Horsas around La Londe has the same style of chalk markings but none are identified to the 436th.
Hi Guys, I have been paging through the two books, "Battery" by Joseph Covais and "Silent Wings Savage Death" by Alfred and Charles Nigl. Neither one seems to give anything concrete on any particular landing area of gliders, but The Book Silent Wings states on page 144 that the assembly area for the 319th GFA was 37.1 - 97.4. As a Lambert Co-ordinance it would be 371974. This plots to the area south of La Londe and just north of the D423 road and west of the D115. I do understand some of the concerns about Tipton Randolph's photo and I hope he didn't come across the photo and used it to what he recalled. He was right about the Waco glider in the pond field being from a previous landing (Detriot), because there is evidence of it being there on early aerial photos. It also does not look like anyone would have been injured in the "Edna" Horsa either. When Tipton Randolph mentions two gliders there already that appeared to have crashed into one another, I am not sure if he is referring to gliders in his serial that don't appear to have collided or crashed into each other, or the two gliders in the same field that looked much more wrecked in the Tyler Alberts DVD that Pat shows in some stills. La Londe could be a possibility. John
Hi All, I found the footage I was looking for on the D-Day Overloard YouTube Channel, but its not much better quality that what's on Tyler's DVD. However, at least readers will be able to see what we are referencing. All scenes between time marks 07:15 and 07:45 are now confirmed (80%+) Pond Field: <iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/K9f8na4q3PY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Looking at the Sainte Mere Eglise area, I think it might be no harm to check the Horsa cluster in the large field across the D17 road from the A6 ALG at La Londe Farm. Below is an extract from aerial reconnaissance cover (sortie unknown) which is shown on page 60 of Philippe's book 'Forgotten Wings' and reproduced here with his permission: The large field at center right holds the Horsa cluster in question and the location of the extract is shown on the GE screenshot below: I cannot be certain, but the above extract is probably from sortie US30_ 4108 flown on the 8th June. Can anyone with a high resolution copy of NCAP_ACIU_US30_4108_1002 have a look please at this Horsa cluster and check to see if there is a glider in any of the four hedgerows of the field; also if any of the gliders is a Waco. Checked it just now myself, but I want to be sure... Thanks, Pat
Thank you Pat for the YouTube footage. Interesting area of the footage at 6:27. It is tempting to ID the Horsa glider as "17" but, I'm not sure that means anything because if I recall there is still some question on 436th markings. Be Well Dave
Pat, Great find with the video! Like Dave I would also be interested in the location of the Horsa's at the 6:25 - 6:50 mark. Some interesting tree shapes for comparison. Also as we look at this video, the #13 Horsa marks do not stand out, but the port windows seemed much more noticeable.
Morning All, Dave and John, I cannot see the YouTube footage from my work PC, but if I am recalling the scenes correctly, there are two undamaged Horsas with tails still attached in one scene and one Horsa nose down in the other. I recall trying to find these scenes quite some time ago and never really found a good location. They cannot be far from the Pond Field though :s Anyone had a chance to look at the big field across the road from the La Londe A6 ALG? Regards, Pat
Hi Pat, and all following this thread, Looking at the high res. version of us30_4108_1002, I can't really say that I see a glider hidden in the hedgerows of that image. The only thing that caught my eye is something in the top hedgerow, which with a significant zooming in, gives the impression of white striping. Whatever it is is located directly above the horsa glider that is pointing obliquely at the top hedgerow, the Horsa with its tail removed and facing backwards. Looks like it is in or under a tree. I would post a zoomed in copy of the image, but my Photobucket program has apparently decided that I cannot do so. I need to take care of that. Anyway, really zoom down and I think you will see what I am referring to. What bothers me a good bit is the small scale of the object. Great thread though! Charles
Hello Charles, Your message reminded me of a photograph I have from my father-in-laws "album". It is of a Horsa(?) near some trees and there is a parachute still hanging from the tree. I do not think this is the same as you spoke of but, I found it interesting and don't believe I saw this posted anywhere. Pat...may I send the photograph to you for posting? Charles, by the way, I think your research is and information is terrific. I learned quite a bit from your research. Thank you Be Well Dave