Great Ian; thanks, The manner in which the document is titled would suggest its not overly large...it might be only a few lines from a particular day's coded transmission. However, its a stone that cannot be left unturned and any assistance you might be able to bring to bear would help. Ellen, my knowledge of German archives is extremely limited, made worse by the language barrier. However, I know others here have no such difficulties. Perhaps this is something we might look at with a view to doing a structured search in Germany? What do you think guys? Regards, Pat
The first question is who reported to whom. I can imagine higher headquarters demanded answers on what happened. This higher HQ could be OB West, OKH or as I suspecte OKW (Hitler). I would assume the report was provided by either Armee level (Pz.Gr.West) or perhaps at corps-level. It is even possible the information was gathered by H.Gr.B or OB West and forwarded by them. The Ultra file will probaby shed light on this and the nature of the communication. It might be a radio transmission, but it might even be a spy reporting on a file he read. When we know more we can explore options. Personally I'd first look into microfilms at Nara before checking the Bundesarchiv.
Sorry to take up valuable space with our discussion on favourite "wartime" comedy shows, but with one of the squadrons potentially involved (602) being coded LO it was too good an opportunity to miss !! However, all joking aside, this could be a valuable find - no doubt with a highly experienced battlefield commander being wounded, or possibly worse, this would have needed reporting up the line, even if for nothing more than a replacement having to be briefed and drafted in. regards Allan
I've seen other questions from OKW. They're usually pretty basic and received short and to the point answers. Very few details were given. This might be another matter, but when there's a war going on there's little point in launching an in-depth investigation. Might have happened... just don't get your hopes up.
Received my 'Page Check' quote from the UK National Archives today... £255.20 :exclamation: See the 'Notes to Customer' which I shaded blue...I think I will go with option 2 and request just the one page to which they refer. If that indicates there might be more which they have not had sight of in this 'page check', we might ask one of the volunteers above to check through the full document. Does that sound like a plan? Regards, Pat
A friend of mine came up with the same conclusion ie that it is probably just one page so yes Pat I think that's a good plan. Regards Ian
If we know who sent the message to whom, we might be able to find it in the microfilm collection of NARA.... An entire roll, with often more than over a thousand pages, only costs around $150, or just $90 from certain third parties.
Go for the single page Pat, the rest, however interesting, are just too much, literally !! Regards Allan
I was looking for something else in this document the other day and found a bit about Rommel. The document is called "Report No. 50 Historical Section (G.S.) Army Headquarters" with subheadings "The campaign in North-West Europe Information from German Sources" I can't remember exactly where I got it from but it was a site or subsite similar to http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/rep-rap/cmhqr-rqgmc-eng.asp Pat, if you email me at thunderchief at ozemail dot com dot au I will email it to you and you can post it in the research section. [hr] Here is the relevant part (paragraph 157) with footnotes (61 and 62): 157. An event of great and incalculable consequence occurred in the evening of 17 Jul, when Allied fighter craft on the routine pursuit of targets of opportunity caused Marshal Rommels car to crash into a tree; Rommel was gravely wounded and eliminated from the scene at a moment when he was well on the way of turning from a soldier carrying out orders into a man taking a hand in shaping the future destinies of his ill-starred fatherland.(61) The incident occurred south of Lisieux on a road between Livarot and Vimoutiers near an estate named Montgomery. (Speidel Invasion, op cit, p. 118). Shortly before 2100 hrs General Speidel informed Army Group D of the event: Immediately thereafter O.B. West discussed the situation on the telephone with the commander of Seventh Army, with Generals Jodl, Warlimont, Schmundt and with Generalstabsarzt(62) Dr. Haubenreisser, reported to O.K.W. that for the time being he had personally taken over command also of A Gp B. According to the doctor=s findings Marshal Rommel had a fractured skull, a severe concussion of the brain and an injured eye. He would require medical attendance for a period of three months, and an additional three months for convalescence. (W.D. A Gp D, op cit, 17 Jul) 61 This subject has been dealt with fully in; Desmond Young ARommel@, ed Collins, London, 1950, pp. 210-211; and: Speidel, Invasion 1944, op cit, pp. 118-119, et al. 62 Generalstabsarzt: Rank for German Medical Officer (Equivalent to German rank of Lieutenant General). Haubenreisser was the Chief Medical Officer of Army Group D.
Hi Adam, Yes, please, I will email you tonight from home for a copy. Its the first time I have come across this report and it may well be the same as that which is held in TNA's HW 19/190. The reference to (Sainte Foy de) Montgomery may still indicate that the ATB location is correct, but I remain suspicious that the attack may have occurred further north on the present day D579 at or shortly following the junction with the D110. That Mairie at the adjoining junction with the D110A bears a remarkable similarity to the gate lodge at the currently accepted location of the attack. Regards, Pat
For what it's worth: Gen.Lt. Hans Speidel was the CoS of H.Gr.B. The book that is being referred to is 'Invasion 1944' (1950). It has apparently republished as 'Invasion 1944 - Rommel and the Normandy Campaign'
Thanks Niels, Does anyone know if 'The Desert Fox In Normandy' by Jr. Samuel W Mitcham contains any information on the 17th July attack? Thanks, Pat
Hi Pat, Not sure about "The Desert Fox" but "Knight's Cross: A Life of Field Marshall Rommel" by David Fraser (pg. 513) describes the July 17th attack in a similar way as previous discussions. There were 5 occupants in the car and 2 attacking aircraft. " on the main road leading south towards Vimoutiers...enemy aircraft coming from behind...car ended up in ditch on left side of the road." The author indicates Rommel was first attended by a French doctor in a hospital in Livarot before being transported to a military hospital, a Luftwaffenortlazarett in Bernay. Regards, Ellen
@Ellen, does he provide the sources he used for his version of the story? Right now I only care for original sources. @Pat, don't really know that book. I decided to ignore it when I read the nonsense he wrote about certain German units. To me it was a clear indication he did not use original German records where he should have. He either made up details or used unreliable sources. He apparently used Harrison's Cross-Channel attack to provide details on certain German units. That is a good book, but not on stuff like that.
Jpz4 (Hi Niels?), The author, David Fraser of "The Knights Cross" cited approximately 40 references but none were specifically attributed to Rommel's strafing. I agree; unfounded "stories"/ opportunistic embellishment serve no purpose in Whitebeam's success. How to best discern original sources...? Regards, Ellen
Hi All, Does anyone have a copy of 'We Defended Normandy' by Hans Speidel? Its an English translation published in 1951 by Jenkins of London. Thanks, Pat
Sorry no, perhaps it should have been entitled "We defended Normandy, which wasn't ours in the first place" !! Regards Allan
Thanks Allan, I have a hankering for books published in the 1950s when memories were fresh...not to imply that all such accounts were accurate of course Regards, Pat