Hi All, Following up on Dale's lead, I have submitted a request for a quote to Golden Arrow Research to supply a scan of the Morning Report for I Company for the 25th June via their online inquiry form here. We may have to expand the number of MRs required but let's see where this initial acquisition leads us first. Below is the zoomed 3rd quadrant for my initial AoI from the 1947 IGN cover: The object circled red is, I am pretty sure, some form of fodder store or animal shelter and can be safely discounted. Option 3_A appears to be the northern part of a farmhouse and yard which might be considered but appears very far forward on the line for the 25th June and I doubt if it was a CP for that reason alone. The farmhouse itself at this location is to the south end of the yard. Below is a screenshot from Bing Maps showing the location today: Option 3_B is even less suitable if we are looking for a two storey farmhouse. The building, if that's what it was in 1947, appears to have completely disappeared as evidenced by what looks to be a bare field today: Quadrant 4 next... Regards, Pat
Before checking quadrant 4, I found the After Action Report for the 116th IR for July and the first 10 days of the month as described as Phase I in this extract: The date window being reported above commences only five days after Loyd was wounded over static ground which I doubt had changed much from the 25th June. Some interesting tidbits there; for example, I wonder if Loyd recalls the smoke rising at 08:00 each morning from ST ANDRE DE L'EPINE or had that phenomenon only started after he was wounded and evacuated? Regards, Pat
Hi Patricia, A long shot, but you never know in this game; can you ask Loyd to have a look at photo 6 of 12 here? Thanks, Pat
Thanks, Pat! I will definately show it to him in the next day or so. I noticed that someone mentioned that the morning reports usually had the location listed. The 4th post of this thread is by John Szweda on March 29th. He provides a link re: the morning report which lists my uncle. It's not the actual report, but I've not been able to access it because I apparently don't have something installed. I'm wondering if someone can go back to that post and see if any information regarding the location on that date is there. Also, while speaking with my uncle, he confirmed the farmhouse was 2 story and was in the woods. He said it wasn't in an apple orchard. He said most of the trees right around him were about the same size. That's why the tree he got behind was small in diameter. He didn't have time to find a bigger one. He stressed to me that once he got in the farm house, beams were falling because they were being hit. When my son interviewed him 5 years ago, he said he was delivering a message. I'm wondering if he could have been going from the area of Bois de Bretel, where 3/116 was, to Villers-Fossard where 2/116 was. Am I way off? I really don't know how this works; just guessing. Thanks! Patricia
Well John's link goes to a spreadsheet download of all the activities on the MRs but not the MRs themselves. If you look on the site page on the link there is a MR for G/116 for 4 July and in the upper lines lists their position on map 34/16 as 556-665 SE of Couvains.
Hi All, Patricia, this is interesting - if we can rule out orchards that would cut down the search area hugely. Don't see why your guess would be any less relevant that anyone else here; he may well have been sent with a message from one battalion to the other as you say. Dale, I am getting a point SW of Couvains for 556-665: It's a field now and was an orchard then, south of a small wood which appears to have the label 'La Bloterie'. I can see no house now or then. The wood seems to have no structure within it's footprint marked on the modern IGN land use overlay either: The field #174 to the west does have a rectangle with #175 marked thereon on the land use overlay but I am pretty sure it refers to a very old ruin which is probably accruing additional EC farm subsidy funding as compensation for preserving the site - you can see how the site was not in use back in 1947: Regards, Pat
Hi All, It's a bit far forward for the 25th June and there are no standalone farmhouses in it but for the sake of completeness, here is the fourth quadrant: There are three farmhouses therein and I have extrtacted each from Bing Maps as usual. Option 4_A is below: While the large barn or shed numbered 3 is post 1947, the smaller building numbered 2 was there. So, at a push, the farmhouse might be described as 'standalone'. I get a sense though that its not two storey but I could be wrong. Option 4_B is 'binged' below: A complex layout with a number of associated sheds across a small farmyard from the farmhouse numbered 1. All buildings except number 6 appears to have been there in 1947. It's also very far forward for the 25th June. There is again some form of animal shelter or fodder store to the south circled in red on the 1947 IGN cover. It's still there today but no GE 'street view' cover exists for the road so we cannot get a look at what is too small a structure in any case. If Option 4_B is in a forward sector of the line on the 25th June, Option 4_C is very likely on the line or even in German held territory on this date: Again, the farmhouse is part of a cluster of farm buildings making up the farmyard. Even if it was further back, it does not match well with how Loyd describes the building. I think it can be safely ruled out. Regards, Pat
Hi All, Following up from Loyd's latest description of the farmhouse location and the fact that the tree behind which he took shelter was not in an orchard, I have decided to take a closer look at the area to the immediate west of quadrants 1 and 3 above marked on IGN mapping as 'La Fossardiere'. It appears to have been, and perhaps still is today, a large area of parkland or estate grounds as indicated by my yellow lines below: There are a number of large houses or chateaus on the property, including Option 1_B which we have already looked at in post #65 on page 7 of this thread. What interests me here is we are seeing lots of trees which appear to be ornamental in nature and not apple orchards as in previous locations. I had hoped the estate was now some form of country hotel and hence we might have been able to track down some ground photos on the web but the GE 'street view' of the entrance from the D6 road on the western boundary does not appear to indicate anything other than a private property: Patricia, can you ask Loyd to take a look at this entrance gateway and see if it rings any bells with him? Thanks, Pat
Hi All, Does anyone have a high definition photo of the map at bottom right of this page? It appears to be on a signpost in Couvains. Thanks, Pat
Hi Patricia, The thought has struck me that we need to limit the type of 'farmhouse' we seek to find :idea: I went looking for some old post cards showing various properties around the St. Lo area from around the late 1800s or early twentieth century. Their locations are not necessarily from our current AoI as I am only attempting to see if Loyd can whittle down the size and design of the 'farmhouse' for us. Below are six examples from the post cards found: I removed 'E' as it is the same building as 'F', just a slightly different angle of view. Also, can you ask him if this cross rings a bell? It's on the eastern side of the D59 road about ¾ of a kilometer south of Couvains. He may not recall it, but I am pretty sure it's on the 1947 IGN cover and so most likely predates 1944. Thanks, Pat
Hi All, Following a Google search last week, I picked up a second hand copy of a book titled 'Couvains 1944 - Bastion de la Defense de Saint-Lo' by Claude Paris. It's just the type of book I was after - full of local history and knowledge of the Couvains area and descriptions of the actions to the south at our current AoI - the only problem is...yes, your guessed it; its in French I have been typing in paragraphs into an online translator but, although it's doable, the task is unbelievably tedious. If I was to scan what I believe to be important paragraphs to PDF, could I ask some of you fluent French speakers to take a look and give me a translation please? I am departing for Normandy on Sunday for a three day tour so it would be late next week before I could get round to scanning. In order to protect the author's copyright, the PDF(s) will not be posted here, but I will be quoting the translated sections and marking up Google Earth extracts based on the very detailed (and very useful here) sketch maps therein. Thanks Guys, Pat
Scan them and I'll see what I can do. Have done it before. My french is certainly not perfect, but enough to find the relevant parts and subject them to a closer translation. (I do read french on an almost daily basis). BTW typing it by hand is why they invented OCR..... Works well, but in French it is very important to check the details.
Thanks Niels, I had considered OCR but I would wonder how the software would handle the French accents. As I know you have the experience to winkle out the relevant details, I'll scan entire pages commencing with the chapter titled 'La Liberation Progresse' on page 36 and you can translate whatever parts you deem relevant. The chapter appears to relate to actions following the capture of Couvains on the 13th June. Should be able to get you a PDF tomorrow. Regards, Pat
Hi Niels, I have scanned pages 36 to 45 inclusive to a single PDF and uploaded to my ADrive account. These pages have the following headings: La Liberation Progresse (13 June)....page 36 La Liberation du Bois de Bretel (date ?)....page 38 La Liberation des Foulons 16 Juin....page 39 Les Mouvements des Troupes / Le 17 Juin....page 41 L'Attacque Americaine au Bois de Bretel (17 June)....page 42 The download link (3.2MBs) is in the email I just sent you - extract whatever parts you deem relevant and I'll scan the following pages upon my return from Normandy next weekend. Thanks Niels, Pat
Question for Patrick, I see you have a page on your site for ALG 19 (La Vieille) here. This strip is shown on one of the sketch maps in 'Couvains 1944 - Bastion de la Defense de Saint-Lo' and I note you have an oblique shot of the strip taken from a P-38 Lightning on your page. Do you know if this photograph is just a pilot's snap shot or is it an official frame from a reconnaissance sortie? If the latter, there might be other frames which we could possibly track down. Your data table indicates this ALG only became operational on the 14th August but I would still be interested in any aerial cover from this area. Thanks Patrick, Pat
Thanks Pat, got the files. The French does not seem too complicated. Any specific details I should look for? Niels
Hi Niels, Basically I think any reference to the movements of 3/116th IR during the period 13th - 25th June would be good, especially if these indicate where the front line was during a later period described further on as 'La Periode Statique' which I take to mean the time General Omar Bradley called a halt in order to give priority of supply to the push on Cherbourg. Also if there is any indication as to where specific families lived and the names of the houses they lived in. There is a good chance 'our' farmhouse is one of those named in the text but there seems to be an assumption by the author that the reader is local to the Couvains area and, if I am not mistaken, descriptions of these dwelling locations are by means of locally known landmarks. The Bois de Bretel woods for example are marked as one on IGN maps even today but they are marked on the sketch map on page 40 as 'Petit Bois' and 'Grand Bois'. We need to know the ground as locals do to this level of detail. Thanks Niels, Pat
Hello there, If no-one beats me to it, I'll translate to the best of my abilities the account in the next day or so. For now, to maybe help orientation, I've marked (underlined in red) on a section of the IGN map for the area (almost) all places listed in the text. The red star on the right points to la Maizelière (where three civilians were killed). Vyndaies, mentioned on p.41 is off the map to the north (top right hand corner. It's not marked on the IGN map but that's where Google maps puts it). Cheers, Sean
Patricia, I have about 100 questions to ask your uncle, but only you can ask them. Has he shared any more details about his expierences in your conversations with him from D-Day through the time he was wounded? I don't know if he confirmed staying in the cemetery at the St Laurent church on the night of D-Day, or if he recognized the photos of the church. I was also wondering if he recalled any german rocket batteries (often called screaming Mimi's) near St Laurent on D-Day. Regarding our search for the CP or headquarters during the period when he was wounded, does he recall what his assignment was and why he was going to a CP or Headquarters? Does he recall who he was supposed to report to? Any more details you are able to share with the group can help us trace and find his location. John