Pat, I haven't had a chance to do my Holdy homework assignment for you yet, but I did run across Mark Bando's comment about the location of a Hiesville area POW pen: http://triggertimeforum.yuku.com/topic/3427/Another-shot-of-Doc-Lages-jeep?page=1 (Posts #8 and #9)
Thanks for the link Don, My understanding is that German casualties were treated by both American and German medics in a cow byre adjoining the square courtyard of Chateau Colombieres. I have heard of the reference to the PoWs being held in a yard 'across the road' from the Chateau but never found it on air cover. I wonder is there confusion with the term? I have no doubt that PoWs were held outside the complex of the Chateau at or in its associated buildings but my guess is that only enough able bodied PoWs were held here to act as stretcher bearers and medical assistants. There is well known footage of German PoWs being de-trucked in the courtyard but these may have come in with wounded also onboard the truck. While I cannot be certain, I still believe there is a 'holding field' in the immediate vicinity of Chateau Colombieres. BTW, I suspect the new jeep photos on TT were taken at the German cow byre aid station. Regards, Pat
Late last year, Don located the online obituary for Flight Officer Winfield C. Goulden, the pilot of my father’s D-Day glider, Keokuk Mission Chalk #4. After a very full life, F/O Goulden passed away in May of 2013 in California at the age of 93. Last week, I was fortunate to be able to establish contact with F/O Goulden’s widow, Sylvia H. Goulden. Like many other veterans, F/O Goulden did not share much of his D-Day experience with his family. However, he did retain his pilot logbook that provides documentation of his D-Day mission. Mrs. Goulden very kindly provided me with a copy of the wartime pages from her husband’s logbook. In addition to the standard logbook entries for his D-Day flight, F/O Goulden also provided a brief summary of the passenger and cargo manifest in the remarks section. To summarize that logbook entry: 6/6/44, From: “467”, To: France, Horsa RAF Glider, Duration: 2:30, Combat Night. Remarks: Invasion of Europe, Co-pilot Frank Blalock, 1 AB LT, 1 MSGT, 1 PFC, jeep, trailer, supplies, ammo. The following three pages from F/O Goulden’s logbook are posted with the permission of Sylvia H. Goulden. With regards to the summary of the passenger and cargo manifest in the logbook remarks section, the “1 MSGT” obviously refers to my father. Based on my father’s summary (provided below) in George Koskimaki’s D-Day with the Screaming Eagles, the “1 AB (Airborne) LT must refer to an unidentified “CIC Officer” and the “1 PFC” must refer to T/5 Leo Plotke. “Our glider contained a jeep and an attached trailer filled with equipment. The jeep was for Colonel Gerald Higgins, the division chief of staff, who had parachuted in with the division headquarters group. The jeep was driven by T/5 Leo Plotke. The only other person aboard besides the two man crew was an officer from CIC who had arrived in England only two days before. Needless to say, he was overwhelmed with all of the rapidly moving events of the past few days.” MSGT John T. McCarthy While not necessarily providing new information about Keokuk Chalk #4, this logbook entry does serve to verify what has been previously documented in other sources. During the last several days, I have briefed Mrs. Goulden on the progress of our Keokuk Chalk #4 research to date (providing her with a link to this Forum thread) and I provided her with photographs and video of our current favored landing site for her husband's glider taken during my May 2012 visit to the field south of the Pratt Memorial. We both plan to follow-up on several items during the next couple of weeks and correspond again. Hopefully these efforts might provide additional information about her husband’s WWII service. My sincere thanks to Mrs. Goulden for sharing this information with us. R/ Kevin
Hi Kevin, New to me are the three digit codes for the various airfields in England. I wonder if this might help to eventually unravel the letters seen on the gliders as part of their airborne/'chalk' numbers? :dodgy: Anyone make out the 2nd line in the 'Remarks' column...[something] landings?...support landings?? Regards, Pat
Pat The three digits are the station number.. ie 467 is aldermaston Check here in the column "Station" http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/aeropus/en_9tcc.php
Pat and Pat, The entry in the remarks section in the second line is most likely “spot lndgs.”, similar to the “spt. Lndgs.” entries in the fourth and fifth lines. A spot or precision landing involves picking a touch down point on the ground and seeing how close you can get to it when your wheels first touch the ground. A necessary skill for landing in hedgerow country. Any ideas on the significance of “T489” next to F/O Frank Blalock’s name in the remarks section of the D-Day entry? Kevin
Thanks Guys, Patrick, do you see any tie between the squadron numbers of the C-47 tow planes and the white numbers painted on the gliders? I wonder if 'T489' might be part of F/O Frank Blalock’s own military service number? The full number would be several digits longer but I have seen the letter 'T' used in some cases. Regards, Pat
Another thought on the glider numbers...why so large? Was the main purpose for air to air recognition so that assigned fighter protection could find their 'charges' easily at the rally point? Just a thought. Pat
At least those GI glider pilots got a chance to take the Horsas for a spin a couple of times before the Big Show. Not the ideal training regimen, huh, Kevin? And why didn't Goulden scribble down his carbine serial number for me? The 71TCS roster provided by Bob Ballintine has several ASN's close to Blalock's. In fact, Alfred Sapa's is T-468. Sapa's postwar reminiscence says he was a licensed pilot prewar. If I recall correctly, the first entrants into the new glider program in '42 were required to already have a pilot's license. What are obviously later pilots have ASN's over 100,000 in the 71st list - and the MACRs. Interesting that Chalk #4 seems so lightly loaded. Per a smattering of load manifests from MACRs: aircrew - 250 lbs. each (aircrew weights on Horsas counted towards load limits; on Wacos, aircrew was counted as part of aircraft - not the load); 3 passengers - 210 lbs. each; trailer - around 1850 lbs. (datasheet shows trailer at 1050 lbs. and payload as 500 lbs. Not surprising that AB would overload trailer a bit). Jeep on Chalk #13 manifest shows at 2277 lbs. plus another 150 lbs.+ of can of gas, tire chains, spare tire, etc.). All that comes to only 5427 lbs. That's over 1000 lbs. short of the Horsa's limit. Might this mean that Chalk #4 carried a regular jeep - at around 3250 lbs? Is 912 lbs. correct for the 37mm AT gun? If so, that's about the 1000 lbs. difference in the two jeep models. Or was it a weight and balance issue and the unused 1000 lbs. of carrying capacity had to go to waste? Kevin time: how much difference in glide range/maneuverability/landing approach would 1000 lbs. make in a glider of about 13000 lbs. gross? I am neither a vehicle nor artillery expert, so somebody who knows the subject can jump in. Are there easily seen differences in the two jeeps that photos can show? If so, might we have another parameter to keep an eye on?
I would like this post to serve as a testimony to the ability of online research forums like Whitebeam to link the families of WWII veterans to the heritage of their loved ones. My personal story below serves as an example of the outstanding “reach “of these forums. Following WWII, like many veterans, my father kept one of this uniforms (his Ike Jacket), his medals and patches, some historical papers and a collection of photographs in a personal album. Prior to his death in 1980, he indicated that these items should eventually be passed down to me. Unfortunately, in 1984, a new member of our family made the misguided decision to sell some of these items to a military memorabilia collector. (The inventory of the sold items included my father’s Ike Jacket, his Bronze Star, several other medals, some uniform patches and a few wartime photographs.) I was overseas on a military deployment at the time of the sale and was unaware that this was taking place. When I returned to the United States, I was upset to say the least. However, my attempts to locate this collector were unsuccessful. While I never completely stopped looking for these items over the years, I was resigned to the fact that I probably would never see them again. Fast Forward to March of 2012… In an effort well documented on this thread, I contacted Paul Woodadge requesting his assistance with locating the landing site of my father’s D-Day glider. Paul then referred me to his now-defunct Battlebus Forum. There I established contact with Pat Curran who eventually stood up this Whitebeam Forum. Early on, Pat also introduced me to the Trigger Time Forum where he made several posts on my behalf. In late 2013, while online with the Trigger Time Forum, I came across a post from the site web master, Mark Bando, announcing the annual dinner for Chicago area Trigger Time followers. Since I was going to be in the Chicago area that weekend, I decided to attend. At that dinner, several of the attendees brought along some of their WWII memorabilia collections. Almost unbelievably, one of the collectors had a memorabilia grouping of my father’s WWII patches, medals and pictures, a portion of the items that had been sold 30 years ago. Fortunately, this first collector knew how to contact a second collector, also in the Chicago area, who had the rest of the collection including my father’s Ike Jacket uniform, his Bronze Star and several photographs. What are the odds of that happening? During discussions with these two gentlemen, I discovered that the collector who had originally purchased these items from my family member in 1984 split and sold the collection to them in the early 1990s. For the next 20 years, these items appeared in numerous WWII memorabilia displays in the Chicago area. (The uniform is still in excellent condition, almost museum quality.) Fortunately, it did not take long for the two gentlemen to agree that their collections rightly belonged with my family. Last week, I completed the purchase of these items and, after a 30 year absence, they are now back in my possession, as my father wanted. Here are photographs of several of the major items in the collection. My father’s Ike Jacket uniform. (Left) MSGT John T. McCarthy, (Center) MSGT George S. Selgrat, (Right) Actor George Murphy My father wearing his Ike Jacket uniform at the 1949 premier of the movie Battleground at the State & Lake Theater in Chicago. This is the only picture I have of my father in this uniform and it was part of the collection that I recovered. Battleground tells the fictional story of a company in the 327th GIR at Bastogne during the Battle of the Bulge. The actor George Murphy later went on to become a U.S. Senator from California. My father’s handwritten label on the inside lining of the jacket. My father’s Bronze Star. My father’s patches and his Bullion glider wings with two stars for his Normandy and Holland glider missions. The Screaming Eagle patch is a Type 8, issued to every officer in the 101st prior to leaving the United States for the ETO. A few of the patches were also issued to enlisted members of the Division, including my father who was a senior NCO in the Division HQ Company. The full story about the Type 8 patch and other versions of the Screaming Eagle patch is available on the Trigger Time Forum at http://www.101airborneww2.com/eaglepatchcorner.html I have to say again that I am still amazed at how these online research forums led me down a 30-year old path to the totally unexpected recovery of my father’s collection. Battlebus led me to Whitebeam and that led me to Trigger Time and ultimately to my attendance at the dinner in early December. It is a testimony to the sometimes overlooked service these forums provide to the families of veterans. In closing, I would like to thank everyone who provided support and assisted me with this recovery effort during the last several months. You are truly appreciated. Regards, Kevin
Hi Kevin, Really delighted things worked out for you. On behalf of all who use the Forum, both members and visitors, I want to express our appreciation to you for sharing this remarkable story with us. Yours is by far the most viewed thread on the Forum and this is due to your unflinching determination to honor the memory of MSG John McCarthy and his buddies who landed in Normandy all those years ago. I know you feel justifiably proud of you Dad but I think now is the time to pause a moment and be proud of yourself also for accomplishing the seemingly impossible task of bringing his possessions home. Well done indeed. Regards, Pat
If the term 'a gentleman and a scholar' was limited to a single use, it would have been applied to my friend Kevin. Seems like a long time ago (2002) that I bought the Koskimaki book (after watching BoB). Then, as now, MSGT McCarthy's account leaps from the page. His story is still being told.
Pat, Don and Others, Thank you for your kind words. It is an honor to work with such a fine group of gentlemen. R/Kevin
Hi Kevin, Pat has such a great way with words that it would be difficult for me to add anything more to his sentiments. I have really enjoyed learning more about you, and your father's story. Words cannot begin to describe how happy I am for you that you have been reunited with many of your father's belongings... They are home where they belong ! John
That's great Kevn. Unfortunately my fathers belongings, including his Ike jacket disappeared shortly after his death. I know exactly where they were when he died , but lo and behold they disappeared.
Monday is Memorial Day, a national holiday of remembrance in the United States. It is a day that has its origin in 1868, three years after the end of the American Civil War, when the Commander in Chief of the Army declared May 30th to be “Decoration Day” - a day to pay tribute to the War's fallen soldiers by decorating both Union and Confederate graves with flowers. After World War I, the day was expanded to honor those who had died in all American wars and in 1971 the United States Congress designated the last Monday in May to be "Memorial Day". Memorial Day is a day for all of us to remember and pay tribute to the courage, the strength of character, and the ultimate sacrifice that members of the military made on behalf of the citizens of the United States and other countries of the world. It is a day for us to pause and reflect on the price of the freedoms that we all enjoy today. With the 70th Anniversary of D-Day less than two weeks away, I believe this Memorial Day holds a special significance for many, especially for the readers and contributors of this Forum. While the focus of Memorial Day is for those that died in the service of our nation, our thoughts often naturally extend to the sacrifices made by those that served alongside those that had fallen. For them, the full impact of their service was not realized until many years after they had left the battlefield. I know this was true for my father. For members like Patricia Scoggins, Randy Fuhrham, Charles Bass, many others and me; this Forum has allowed us to learn more about the history and the sacrifices that our family members made in Normandy while at the same time honoring their service throughout the entire year. To those members of the Forum that have contributed to this research, I’m sure that I can speak on behalf of all the family members in saying thank you. In closing, to those service members that made the ultimate sacrifice in the service our great nation, we are forever grateful. Final resting spot of MSGT John T. McCarthy, 101st Airborne Division, 1942-1945 Respectfully, Kevin G. McCarthy Captain, U.S. Navy (Retired)