Hi All, Yet another interesting photograph from page 20 of the Brown Album in the Kenny I. Knotts Collection on the U.S. Army Heritage and Education Center site: This is the photograph Niels refers to in post #6 in the 70th TB Detracked Sherman (Knotts Photo) thread. I have enlarged a portion which appears to show a dwelling house complex with the main roofline running perpendicular to the road and a smaller shed like structure adjoining and parallel to the road. Additionally, there may be another dwelling house behind the roofline as indicated by the broadside on view of the chimney, again running parallel to the road. Initially I was looking at the N13 north of Sainte Mere Eglise, facing south and had in mind the most northerly most of the buildings in Neuville au Plain. However, looking at the famous photograph of PFC John E. Atchley, H/505 PIR on page 98 of Michel De Trez's book "Sainte Mere Eglise - Photographs of D-Day", I doubt if the view is south. For those of you who may not have seen this photograph of the Stug wrecks before, PFC Atchley is pictured in front of the most southerly of the two Stugs knocked out immediately north of the town (his kill is the Stug further down the road on the western (left) side). Note how the concrete power poles are on the eastern side of the road in Atchley's photograph: Thus if the Knotts photograph is north of the town, the view must be northwards, assuming the power lines have not crossed over to the other side. The burned out house down the road aways in the Atchley photograph does not appear to match that in the Knotts photograph either, even if it was on the other side. Another photograph from page 192 of Michel's book shows that the power coming into the town from the south end is probably running along the western side of the N13; though we see one concrete power pole on both sides here: Further observation of the new Knotts photograph would appear to indicate a kerb? at the right side road margin; I wonder if this indicates the close proximity of a village or town? I would also suspect the tank dozer behind the two German trucks may have been involved in the clearing of wreckage from the road as indicated by the set of tyre marks and wreckage. Any further thoughts Niels/Guys Regards, Pat
Looking at the photo again, I think Sean may be right: we are looking south towards Fauville. Initially I also believed we were looking north, for the same reason as Pat: Well, I think that is exactly what happened. If you look at the top three insulators, they form a kind of arrow. On all photos these seem to point to the east. North of SME these are all on the east side of the highway. However, on the dozer photo this arrow is on the opposite side of the road. So... cross-over or just turned around? I'm thinking the first because that appears to be the case north of Les Forges. (Further south of on the N13 they appears to be again on the east side of the highway). I would guess the cross-over would 'naturally' occur because of obstacles in a town or village, not just at some random spot along the route. Anyone have some good photos of the N013 just south of SME?
Hi Guys, Nice work Sean; I think you are spot on again Niels, I have pre-invasion cover in the form of NCAP_ACIU_US31_445_1014 flown on the 24th May 1944 in good weather. Below is a down sized version, rotated to north: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk The red rectangle is zoomed to below: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk The same area in GE today: I have marked what I believe to be the roof ridgelines and chimneys common to all three views. Here is the Knotts photo again: The red roof ridgeline is not the same as I suspect the old annex has been removed and a new replacement constructed very slightly more eastwards than the old one. Unless someone can point out problems here, I think Sean has this location nailed down Regards, Pat
Hello all, Re-reading parts of Utah to Cherbourg and the passage below reminded me of this thread. Same "convoy"? Location is very close.... "The enemy was building up strength on high ground 1,500 yards south of Ste. Mere-Eglise, where according to reports he had emplaced an artillery battery. He was moving infantry into the draw in front of his base. After the first German attack had been repulsed, Colonel Krause sent Company I, with eighty men, to strike at the enemy's western flank. The counterattack was almost disastrous, as Company I, confused by the zigzag course through hedgerows, turned east too soon and emerged on the road just ahead of the enemy position. As a result of this miscalculation, however, the company hit an enemy convoy and destroyed it with Gammon grenades." Just thinking aloud, like. Cheers, Sean
Could be, but maybe only the debris on the right is related to that incident. The trucks appear to be in working condition: no flat tires, no smashed windows. Speaking of Hill 20, I'm considering this location to show the southern slope of that hill, but it would require a considerable ammount of compression to let the hedgerows there look like this. And I'd like to get some thoughts on that. If this is the right location, it would be the first clear groundview of the highway in that sector. Source: Archives Normandie 1939/1945
Hi Niels, Could the Stug under tow shot have been taken on the other side of the ridge in your tractor and gun photograph? Looks like a good match for the ridge line in both photos with the power line on the same side? Regards, Pat
Pat, I'm not sure if I understand Niels correctly, but is the suggestion that the view is south towards Blosville/les Forges, from just south of Fauville, or looking up to Fauville from les Forges? Cheers, Sean Edited due to re-reading of previous posts.
Sort of doubt it. The Knotts photo show the electricity poles on the west side of the road between Fauville and SME. The Stug photo has those on the east side of the road. I've rechecked the photos and all seem to suggest those poles were on the west of the highway for the entire stretch of road between Les Forges and Sainte-Mere-Eglise. Additionally, on the Stug photo the ground seems to rise slightly, but I still do not think that matches the southern approach to SME. Instead I'm thinking we are looking N towards the slight rise between SME and Neuville-au-Plain, not to far from the mystery vehicle from one of the earlier Battlebus threads. Theory: the vehicles N of SME (SME-Neuville fighting) were collected on some low ground between those two places, vehicles lost south of SME (Hill 20) were moved to a similar location south of Hill 20. Both locations were little more than initial holding areas. Later all those vehicles were moved to a larger collection point for inspection before finally ending up at the La Fière dump. And yes, I'm deliberately distinguishing holding areas; collection points; and dumps.
Hi Guys, My guess was that the tracked tractor pulling the gun shot is looking south to the Fauville ridge with the photographer standing on the N13 road with his back to Sainte Mere Eglise and that's at odds with the Knotts photo which is much more likely to be that view. Just thought the trees on the ridge were a mirror of the Stug under tow shot. Both could still work for the same ridge somewhere other than Fauville IMHO Regards, Pat
Hello Pat, But then we have the issue of the "arrow" of insulators which always seem to face east..... Cheers, Sean
Based on the shadows in the tow truck image, the road is bearing somewhere between about 280-320 deg. There are no perfect shadows to judge it from, so if you wanted to increase that range by +/-20 deg to be sure, that would be OK. (I did my calcs before I checked N13 heading on Google Earth!) Unfortunately, N13 is just about straight as a rifle shot in the AoI. What is certain (FWIW) is that it cannot be looking anywhere within about 40-160 deg. I'm not a vehicle guy, but the tow truck looks like an M1A1 based on the ordnance catalog. If that is correct, it is 23'-5" long. That should help estimate the road width. Isn't there a section in the Neptune plan that lists road widths and bridge capacities?