Hi All, Some of you will recall work we undertook a while back on the BB forum relating to footage and stills showing the 'Hoatson' Horsa wreck on a laneway. The word 'Hoatson' is written on the starboard side of the cockpit. Below are some screenshots showing the wreck: ...and from page 119 of Philippe Esvelin's 'D-day Gliders': I first assumed that the word 'Hoatson' referred to a town in the United States, but a Google search for the term brought me instead to this RootsWeb' post: Note especially the description of the landing shaded yellow and the fact that a photograph of Hoatson's glider appeared in an American newspaper. I tried to contact the Hoatson family when last working on this story but failed. Fortunately, Hans appears to have had more success and has recently been in touch with them. He would like to be able to pass on some information to the family and therefore I have reposted here today that which I can recall of the original work we done on the wreck site. As to tracking down the site, there are a few observations I would make: The laneway appears narrow, implying a 'Dxxx' designation rather than 'Dxx' Telephone line only - no power lines Niels has found a reference to a smashed glider landing in a document pertaining to the Neuville au Plain area. A rough translation is shown below: It certainly infers a road or laneway wreck site but of course it might not be related at all. Chemin des Noires-Terres appears to be a common place name in France. There is one inland from Sword Beach but I have been unable to find a local place name in the Neuville au Plain area. Anyone any thoughts as to how to move this quest forward? Regards, Pat
Hello there, There is a farm des Noires Terres with several paths leading towards it. Note Ste Mere Eglise in bottom right corner, Cherbourg-Paris railway and the Merderet to the west, and that the path from Neuville au Plain is fairly straight, as per the photos: Starting point if nothing else Cheers, Sean
Thanks Sean, You may well be onto something here. Do you recall my obsession with the story related by Philippe Esvelin in his book 'D-Day Gliders' (p.79) regarding an OSS team inserted onto DZ 'O' on the 3rd June? It's not a very popular story in the airborne world and was shot down several times during my tenure running it on the BB forum. The supposed objective was to mark DZ/LZ 'O' for the 505th pathfinders and the story goes that the Germans came on the team and killed three British commando security men. Philippe later sent me some photographs of an object which was supposedly left behind on a farm in the Neuville au Plain area by this team when the survivors were sheltering an injured member. After a bit of research, I believe the object was a tobacco pouch. See this web page I set up at the time. Anyway, whatever this group were doing, the point I am trying to get to is that Philippe later sent me a GE screenshot showing the location of the farm, but asked me not to make the location known. I am going to honour that request but I can say that the farm is quite near the one you have pointed out. Now, I cannot find it just this minute, but there is an account written by a schoolteacher somewhere (Caen Museum?) on the web in French about her being asked by a resistance member to translate for an injured 'parachutist' prior to D-Day. It may be unrelated to the OSS story but the interesting thing is that the schoolteacher taught in the school in Neuville au Plain. I had the link when we last did work on the Waverley Wray action as, IIRC, she later led a group of civilians south though the Wray AoI to shelter in Ecoqueneauville. I could be way out, but your Les Noires Terres Farm certainly has my attention now focused on the western side of the N13 for a possible "Hoatson" location. Many thanks Sean, Pat
Hi All, In order to further investigate the possibility that the Hoatson Horsa wreck is on one of the laneways in the LZ 'O' area, Sean has kindly offered to do some legwork for us on the ground. Two long straight(ish) stretches were photographed on the 30th December last by Sean as indicated by the red and green arrow pairs on the GE screenshot below: But lets forget for a moment where each of the following six photographs were shot; let's see if you guys can spot any similarities with the frames from the footage and/or the still photographs shot in 1944. There are no preconceived conclusions; these locations could be well off the mark but Sean and I would be interested in seeing what other readers may see in the comparison: Over to you guys... Regards, Pat
I was going through the Hoatson thread the other day and while the name Hoatson had not been familiar to me a while back, it did ring a bell of sorts that day. In an earlier post concerning my father's Horsa crash, I noted that I had received a copy of the June History for the 436th TCG/82nd TCS. In that post I listed the general locations of landings reported presumably by the pilot or co-pilot on each of the 12 Horsa gliders supplied by the 82nd TCS for mission Elmira, Serial 32. Going back to that document, I find that the 4th glider listed was piloted by Vincent P. Boyer and Frank L. Hoatson. I will quote the entire report of that landing: "Load - Ammunition, 14 men. Flak (mg) hit ship but no person. Crashed into trees and telephone poles 1 1/4 miles NE of St. Mere Eglise. No injuries on landing. Flak hit Lt. Boyer's back - flak suit protected him. Dug in near Glider to guard ammunition. Went to assembly area and stayed there Wednesday night and Thursday. Went to Division C.P. dodging snipers and then to beach. German clothing found in villa near assembly area, probably was billet. French women told them about Germans in orchard. They thought that she was trying to get them to go that way as a trap. More probably she thought they could clear them out." According to the familiar landing chart for Serial 32, there were 8 Horsa gliders that carried 14 personnel of the 319th FA BN. Of these, only 3 report being destroyed, carried no jeep, trailer, or gun and had no one killed or evacuated. Charles So, assuming that this is about the same Hoatson as the thread has been addressing, maybe this bit of information could be helpful to locating the crash site.
Hi Charles, I am glad you posted on this subject. I myself have been pretty confident for some time about this Horsa Hoatson wreck being along the Route de Beuzeville au Plain, just before Le Buts at La Londe. I think the evidence can be found in the lower left corner of NCAP aerial image US30/4108 frame 1002 taken on June 8 1944. Hopefully Pat can post an aerial image of that area. John
Yes, John, I am familiar with that aerial image and was looking at it again today. Looks like two gliders ended up laying across the road. However, they seem to be closer together in the screenshots and Esvelin photo than in the NCAP aerial (assuming they are the same gliders). I'm not as familiar with analyzing these pictures as a lot of you are; so maybe I'm not accounting for something. Maybe there are better images of these crashes. Charles
Hi Guys, This new evidence does indeed support your theory John - almost to the last yard I would say As you are aware, I have not agreed with this location for the Hoatson Horsa in past correspondence, principally because I think the D17, even in 1944, is/was too wide when compared with the ground shots of the crash site. Here is the extract from NCAP_ACIU_US30_4108_1002 flown on the 8th June to which you refer: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk ...and a GE finder chart for readers who may not know where we are: I have to admit that its unlikely another pair of Horsas crashed across a laneway like this but I still struggle with this location nonetheless :s If you look at the still from the footage above showing the deflated rubber dinghy, I just cannot reconcile the width of that laneway with the present day view of the D17 below looking west from the La Londe Farm Avenue: However, most present day laneways would have been widened and the GE 'street view' camera does distort angle of view. Another thing I have noticed; the far glider in the ground shots is showing its star and invasion stripes well out across the laneway. I cannot see this being the case with Horsas 'A' or 'B' in frame 1002. However, this glider, together with the 'Hoatson' may also be in the process of being moved as the footage and stills are being taken - readers will recall the movement of 'Edna' down at the Pond Field. There is no doubt though that this new evidence posted by Charles above is very strongly pointing at your pair of Horsas John. Regards, Pat
Pat, Thanks for adding the aerial image. Something else I want to add for those looking at the aerial to also consider that the Hoatson wreck is pushed aside into the ditch just east (right) of the access to La Londe farm and the Hoatson wreck is not the Horsa marked "B". I think the tree canopy slightly covers the hoatson wreck in the ditch. This aerial image was taken from the north towards the south and the plane flew in a westerly direction. if you want a different perspective look at this image upside down. (or maybe Pat could also flip the image over) It may seem more 3 dimensional upside down even though it is an aerial. Looking closely at Horsa "A" in the aerial you can see both the darker row of trees or hedgerow, then a slight shadow area, then the slightly lighter grassy area before the road. Only a small portion of the tail Horsa "A" is still covered by the trees. Just some more thoughts for those to study. John
OK John, So you are saying that the ground shots are looking westwards? If so, then the Hoatson wreck must be on the northern side of the D17 road. However, from the GE street view screenshot and frame 1002, the wide margin and ditch is on the southern side... ...am I reading you correctly? Regards, Pat
Pat, I dont want to confuse anyone. The aerials are oriented correct and the top of the photo is north ,the bottom is south, and all the roads match. The plane was moving westwards as it was doing the recon photos. I guess the point I was trying to make is that the plane was north of the Route de Beuzeville au Plain road flying westward and that by viewing the image upside down you will get a slightly oblique view of the wreck looking north to south... you get a sense of the Hoatson wreck being slightly under the tree canopy ...at least in my opinion. John
Hi John, What side of the D17 do you think the Hoatson wreck is rolled to; north or south? Regards, Pat
Pat, The north side. I dont want to confuse you or anyone at all. In my opinion I just "see it" a little better when I look at the image upside down because I get a slightly oblique view of the area. Maybe posting the same picture upside down would possibly help ? John
OK John, Will flip it tonight in PS. BTW, have you looked at the laneway on the eastern boundary of the large glider field directly north of your location. I do not have access to NCAP at present. Pat
Hi Guys, OK, here is the extract from frame 1002 flipped north to south: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk I also inverted the tones in this version: Image Credit: RCAHMS/www.aerial.rcahms.gov.uk The red labels are my take on what John is linking to the ground photographs, with 'A' being the Horsa visible down the road aways as seen below and the La Londe Farm avenue meeting the road at the telephone pole: Am I correct in my assumption John? Regards, Pat
Hi All, While I still have reservations about John's site, I believe there is sufficient evidence now to warrant purchasing a high resolution copy of NCAP_ACIU_US30_4108_1002 - though NCAP's new, improved ordering form has taken a dislike to my initial attempt last night as per my post on Patrick's 'New NCAP website' thread here :s Regards, Pat
OK, The online order form has now processed my request but I think all I am going to end up with is an option to purchase a £8.25 'proof' at 300dpi - see my concerns here on Patrick's thread. Regards, Pat
Charles, Once Pat obtains a high resolution copy of the NCAP it will be worth studying on your behalf also, because not only is it a good location for the Hoatson Horsa, but all the additional horsa's in the aerial are in my opinion candidates for your fathers horsa. For those reading along, here is a quick link to remember Charles father's story in the Elmira Horsa Glider thread : http://normandy.whitebeamimages.ie/forum/thread-187-post-1278.html#pid1278 We will have to review the aerial for both purposes... should be interesting ! Respectfully, John
Hi Guys, Yes, as I feared, the 300dpi version is just a copy of the second, maximum zoom level obtainable in any case when a lodged in user uses the 'Zoom Image' tool in the screen shot below: The user must have an account to log in of course, but the two annual subscriptions of £20 (zoom images only) and £40 (zoom images and view sortie index plots) are both far better value that paying £9.90 (£8.25 + £1.65 VAT) per 300 dpi proof. Now, I just have to figure out how to order a high resolution version from their price list here. The Image Sales page is far from informative as to how one might accomplish the task of giving them more money Regards, Pat